Dumbest pull-over ever !!
08-04-2008, 01:01 PM
#31
Racer
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I don't mind being stopped if I am guilty, but I have been pulled over two times and out and out lied to by the officer. They were fabricating a story to justify pulling me over. In the first case I did not even get a warning when I confronted the officer with the facts. In the second he gave me a warning.
In both cases I remained calm and polite, but firmly stated the facts which were in direct contradiction to what the officer claimed. I think both were surprised that someone would challenge them, but to their credit they listened and did not actually ticket me. The lesson learned though, is that some officers out there, do make it up as they go and will pull you over because they think you were going fast. Luckily the vast majority of police are honest and not out to bust chops just because you are driving a nice car.
In both cases I remained calm and polite, but firmly stated the facts which were in direct contradiction to what the officer claimed. I think both were surprised that someone would challenge them, but to their credit they listened and did not actually ticket me. The lesson learned though, is that some officers out there, do make it up as they go and will pull you over because they think you were going fast. Luckily the vast majority of police are honest and not out to bust chops just because you are driving a nice car.
08-04-2008, 01:23 PM
#32
Racer
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My $.02, Mark makes good points, then again some Rennlisters have been undoubtedly targeted before - but, what's peculiar at best is Rivarama has 40% of his posts directed at tickets and/or law enforcement...I think that's the real "issue" if there is one - it's a given there are good and bad in any position, it's also a given we all likely speed far more times than we get caught!
08-04-2008, 03:37 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Whenever I look at all the times I've been pulled over, as a rule it's fair to say I'm looking for mercy, not justice!
And I must admit, more time than not I was given mercy...more than I deserved!
And I must admit, more time than not I was given mercy...more than I deserved!
08-04-2008, 05:45 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
I think Mark, Chuck and others sum this up pretty well.
Attitude has a lot to do with the result... whether it's in driving style, or personal interactions.
In my interactions with Boston and MA state police they have shown themselves to be professional and courteous. Having a bad attitude about police doesn't help you when you're pulled over.
Attitude has a lot to do with the result... whether it's in driving style, or personal interactions.
In my interactions with Boston and MA state police they have shown themselves to be professional and courteous. Having a bad attitude about police doesn't help you when you're pulled over.
08-05-2008, 09:33 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
You have 30 days to notify the DMV of your new address (i.e. get a MA driver's license...based on the post I'm assuming you've recently moved to MA?).
Care to provide any details about the DWI check stops? Maybe it's different in the North, but down here in NC they can't do random pull overs; they'd have to be operating a checkpoint to do random stops. I thought that one is a Constitutional requirement, but it may have been an NC State Supreme Court case, my memory is a little fuzzy.
Care to provide any details about the DWI check stops? Maybe it's different in the North, but down here in NC they can't do random pull overs; they'd have to be operating a checkpoint to do random stops. I thought that one is a Constitutional requirement, but it may have been an NC State Supreme Court case, my memory is a little fuzzy.
08-05-2008, 09:40 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
When I stop someone that appears to be a normal person, versus a drug addict or parolee, I try to treat them the same way that I would want my family to be treated. The more cars that I stop, the more likely I am to find the dope dealer, thief, rapist, or murderer that I am looking for. The state vehicle codes provide me with the ability to stop cars and contact the occupants.
Also, I understand the viewpoint on stopping more is better, but do you really think that's an appropriate purpose for the vehicle code? I'm oversimplifying here, but aren't you supposed to only conduct some further search/seizure beyond what is called for by the witnessed infraction alone if you see some new evidence of that other crime you are looking for or are given consent?
08-09-2008, 05:08 AM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Marlinspike, here is a quote from the San Francisco Chronicle (12-23-02) regarding parolee recidivism rates in California..."Now, virtually everyone released from prison spends three years on parole. Most -- about 71 percent -- end up back in prison within 18 months -- the nation's highest recidivism rate and nearly double the average of all other states." They are far more dangerous for law enforcement to deal with than the average citizen. We have a three strikes law that means they have very little to lose, and a lot to gain, by attempting to flee from, or assaulting law enforcement.
California case law has determined that "pretext stops" are an appropriate use of the vehicle code. It is one of the best tools that we have. After conducting a lawful traffic stop for vehicle code violations, there are numerous circumstances that allow officers to search the vehicle, including...plain view, furitive movements, narcotics influence or paraphernalia, probation, parole, incident to arrest, inventory prior to storage, and consent (just to name a few).
California case law has determined that "pretext stops" are an appropriate use of the vehicle code. It is one of the best tools that we have. After conducting a lawful traffic stop for vehicle code violations, there are numerous circumstances that allow officers to search the vehicle, including...plain view, furitive movements, narcotics influence or paraphernalia, probation, parole, incident to arrest, inventory prior to storage, and consent (just to name a few).
Last edited by Mfletch; 08-09-2008 at 04:21 PM.
08-09-2008, 11:38 AM
#40
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You need to be alot friendlier,yes sir no sir and keep your hands up. Keep avoice activatd recorder clipped to your visor, NOT low where you will get shot reaching for it,when they go to far go to the City attorney and news with the tape.
08-11-2008, 11:18 AM
#41
Drifting
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What you should know about pretext stops:
A "pretext stop" is a stop in which the officer detains the citizen for a minor crime (i.e. traffic offense) because the officer actually suspects the person of involvement in a major crime (i.e. drug possession). The ruling in Whren v. U.S. demonstrates how easy it is for officers to do this. There are numerous minor infractions for which officers can legally pull over a car, thus officers frequently choose which cars to pull over based on suspicions that something more serious might be going on. Frequently, police officers decide who to pull over based on age, race, and appearance. This is unconstitutional, but impossible to prove.
Therefore, the first defense against pretext stops is to avoid violating any traffic laws. This includes, but is not limited to, obeying speed limits and traffic signs, signaling properly before making turns, and keeping your car in working order. If the officer can't form a convincing explanation for why you were pulled over, the seizure becomes illegal, and any evidence found during the traffic stop can't be used in court. Of course, a legitimate traffic stop always remains a possibility, thus it is important to keep private items out of sight and never consent to searches.
A "pretext stop" is a stop in which the officer detains the citizen for a minor crime (i.e. traffic offense) because the officer actually suspects the person of involvement in a major crime (i.e. drug possession). The ruling in Whren v. U.S. demonstrates how easy it is for officers to do this. There are numerous minor infractions for which officers can legally pull over a car, thus officers frequently choose which cars to pull over based on suspicions that something more serious might be going on. Frequently, police officers decide who to pull over based on age, race, and appearance. This is unconstitutional, but impossible to prove.
Therefore, the first defense against pretext stops is to avoid violating any traffic laws. This includes, but is not limited to, obeying speed limits and traffic signs, signaling properly before making turns, and keeping your car in working order. If the officer can't form a convincing explanation for why you were pulled over, the seizure becomes illegal, and any evidence found during the traffic stop can't be used in court. Of course, a legitimate traffic stop always remains a possibility, thus it is important to keep private items out of sight and never consent to searches.
Marlinspike, here is a quote from the San Francisco Chronicle (12-23-02) regarding parolee recidivism rates in California..."Now, virtually everyone released from prison spends three years on parole. Most -- about 71 percent -- end up back in prison within 18 months -- the nation's highest recidivism rate and nearly double the average of all other states." They are far more dangerous for law enforcement to deal with than the average citizen. We have a three strikes law that means they have very little to lose, and a lot to gain, by attempting to flee from, or assaulting law enforcement.
California case law has determined that "pretext stops" are an appropriate use of the vehicle code. It is one of the best tools that we have. After conducting a lawful traffic stop for vehicle code violations, there are numerous circumstances that allow officers to search the vehicle, including...plain view, furitive movements, narcotics influence or paraphernalia, probation, parole, incident to arrest, inventory prior to storage, and consent (just to name a few).
California case law has determined that "pretext stops" are an appropriate use of the vehicle code. It is one of the best tools that we have. After conducting a lawful traffic stop for vehicle code violations, there are numerous circumstances that allow officers to search the vehicle, including...plain view, furitive movements, narcotics influence or paraphernalia, probation, parole, incident to arrest, inventory prior to storage, and consent (just to name a few).
08-11-2008, 03:06 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Marlinspike, here is a quote from the San Francisco Chronicle (12-23-02) regarding parolee recidivism rates in California..."Now, virtually everyone released from prison spends three years on parole. Most -- about 71 percent -- end up back in prison within 18 months -- the nation's highest recidivism rate and nearly double the average of all other states." They are far more dangerous for law enforcement to deal with than the average citizen. We have a three strikes law that means they have very little to lose, and a lot to gain, by attempting to flee from, or assaulting law enforcement.
California case law has determined that "pretext stops" are an appropriate use of the vehicle code. It is one of the best tools that we have. After conducting a lawful traffic stop for vehicle code violations, there are numerous circumstances that allow officers to search the vehicle, including...plain view, furitive movements, narcotics influence or paraphernalia, probation, parole, incident to arrest, inventory prior to storage, and consent (just to name a few).
California case law has determined that "pretext stops" are an appropriate use of the vehicle code. It is one of the best tools that we have. After conducting a lawful traffic stop for vehicle code violations, there are numerous circumstances that allow officers to search the vehicle, including...plain view, furitive movements, narcotics influence or paraphernalia, probation, parole, incident to arrest, inventory prior to storage, and consent (just to name a few).
Right, there are numerous circumstances that allow you to search, but I was just pointing out that you need to have something to get to search. Given that if you pull someone for a failure to signal a turn, for instance, you don't get to search if you see nothing else and are not given consent, don't you think that pretext stops, while perhaps constitutional, are an inappropriate use of the vehicle code.
08-11-2008, 03:10 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
Unless you're in one of the states that requires all parties to the conversation to be aware that the conversation is being recorded.
08-11-2008, 04:04 PM
#44
Racer
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08-11-2008, 04:23 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
You'd be surprised. There was an incident in MA not all that long ago. Guy recorded cop cussing at him during a traffic stop. Guy went to PD. Guy found himself with new charges against him. But yeah, a state requiring all-party consent to record a phone call might not to record an in-person conversation, but there are states that do.