Dmitri

I have a 2003 coupe (tip, xenons, full leather and premium sound) with about 65k miles. I unwillingly became a member of the 996 accident club. My car got "sandwiched" on the 405 freeway (guy behind me wasn't paying attention when traffic came to a stop; hit another car, then plowed me and pushed me into the car in front) with the most significant damage to the passenger-side rear-end. Everything from the tail light down is smashed, and the impact rippled the right-rear quarter panel just behind the passenger door. The front bumper is destroyed, and the hood buckled some and will need to be replaced.

I took the car to the body shop where the local Porsche and MBZ dealers have their work done (Class Auto Body, Long Beach, CA). Preliminary estimate was about $7k, but after a tear-down, it looks like damage will be much higher - in the $18-$20k range. The rear body panel is completely pushed in, and to get to the damage, they're going to need to remove the engine and transmission. They also are going to have to put it on a jig to square things up (frame damage?). In addition, there's the paint. Right now, they'd be painting about 1/2 of the car or more.

I have a few basic (perhaps really basic) questions.

1) Is there a true "frame" on the car?

2) What's the significance of the damage to the frame, assuming it can be fixed?

3) In light of the damage, should I be pushing the insurer to declare the car a total loss?

4) Related to number 3, is there a reliable source that I can access to get the values that the insurer will use to determine the car's value for purposes of assessing whether it's a total loss?

Thanks in advance for any advice or insights!

Duane993

Your car will show up as frame damaged on Carfax. Push like hell for a total loss. If that doesn't work make a dimunition of value claim. This will likely require a professional apprasial. Being very determined you might get them to total the car which is the best outcome given the amount of damage.

Dmitri

Thanks for the input, Duane.

Do you think it matters that I signed auth for the body shop to order parts? This was prior to tear-down when the scope of the damage nearly tripled.

Mfletch

Dmitri, I'm sorry to hear about your accident. I'm glad you are ok. I have bought and repaired several salvaged vehicles, including two 996s. I would not buy a project car with as much damage as you have described. I would push your insurance adjustor to declare the vehicle a total loss. Even if your car was repaired properly, the diminished value is substantial.

It would be difficult for you to sell your car after it is repaired. I sold my first 996 project car a couple months ago. It had an engine fire & I rebuilt it. When I listed it on ebay, it was the least expensive 996 in the nation (including cars.com and autotrader). It still took a couple months to sell.

Good Luck.

Dmitri

Thanks very much, Mfletch. I really appreciate the views of those who have "been there, done that." I've never had a car with this much/this type of damage before. To look at it to my untrained eye, it doesn't look that bad. But . . .

My quickie research shows the wholesale Bluebook value at about $35k for an '03 coupe at 65k mi in "good" condition. Do you have a sense of how much or by what percentage you'd discount the value because of frame damage?

Mfletch

Dmitri, you are very welcome. I currently have two vehicles that had prior accident damage and clear titles ( 05 Range Rover & 03 BMW 330i). They are worth about 1/4 to 1/3 less than cars with no accident history (in my experience). The BMW had the left front fender & hood repaired (no frame damage). The Kelly Blue Book value is $19,200. I'm having a difficult time selling it and I have it listed for $13,950.

JC3D

Mfletch, is your avatar photoshopped together, or is that the actual photo?

Mfletch

JC3d, my avitar is a photo of my latest project car. It should be completed today. I'm having the new windshield installed. I should be installing new wheels in a couple weeks and the aero kit shortly.

Raisedina911

Dmitri,

I was in a big accident in my Tahoe on the 73, just south of the 405. I took it to an authorized repair shop of my insurance. The shop said I had a bent frame and ended up replacing the frame! The final invoice actually says "remove and replace frame assembly" What was even more shocking was that it only cost $2850.00 for the frame swop out.

I think the repair place fights as hard as they can to repair the car. My total bill (which the insurance paid all of) was $10,500. My Tahoe at the time was only two years old at the time and probably worth $18-20k.

I think it is harder to get the insurance to total the car.

Good luck,

Dmitri

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

Both the body shop and the dealer say that straigtening the frame is no big deal, and that they'll make the car perfect. They say that the amount of damage isn't going to total the car, and that the best I'd be able to do is to pursue compensation for diminution in value because of the accident history that now will show up on Car Fax.

Based on a quick look around (Edmunds, Kelly), the car's value looks like it's between $35k-$40k, depending on whether its a trade-in or private sale. Of course, that's for a car without an accident history. Is there some objective criteria that insurers use to determine the diminution in value?

Thanks, again.

Chads996

I'd be yelling at the top of my lungs at the Insurance agency. If they are putting this thing on the jig / frame machine, significant damage was done. Period. As everyone else has said, push like crazy for a total. $18-20K in damage is WAYYY to much, IMO

C.

TheSpeedDemon

Get it totaled if you can. Don't take your insurance's first settlement offer, it will be a low ball number. Research online (i.e. Auto Trader) and go through a 'what is my car worth' process so that you have some ammunition to fire back at them to get a higher settlement (believe me I speak from experience when it comes to doing this).

DCP

Like all current cars (at least that I know of), there is no separate frame. It is a unibody meaning that the structure of the car supports itself with parts of the structure being strengthened to support to the whole. Some SUV's (like the Tahoe mentioned above) have separate frames. If a unibody car is not straight after an accident, they put the car on a "frame machine" which is meant to bend it back straight. One of my kid's cars was repaired with one of these machines. It came out okay. I suspect that a Porsche is going to take a much bigger hit on value from being repaired than her Mustang.

flash80

Push HARD to have the car totalled--otherwise it'll just be a headache for you in the future.

Which insurance company is it?

My wife's car (2001 BMW 325i) was involved in an accident last year. The KBB is around $12k for the car. The repair was around $8k. AAA insurance would not total the car (idiots). Now we're having a tough time selling the car--asking less that $10k--sucks.
If they won't total the car, then FIGHT for diminished value. I wouldn't accept a car back after that much frame damage.

viper501

1 - No "frame" per se. Unibody forms the 'space' frame.

2 - Despite this fact, the damage sounds substantially structural. I would not want to have it fixed as it will never be quite the same with that level of destruction. You also need to make sure that the transaxle and engine have not suffered damage from the tire/wheel being impacted. That will add on several thousand dollars as a transaxle from Porsche is in the 8-9k range for a 6spd manual.

3 - Not only yes but hell yes.

4 - Black book from the dealer would be my bet. Might also see what they're pulling at auction. You want retail for the hulk when they total it. Don't let them push you around on the valuation.

If they refuse to total it, tell them that you want dimunition in value and get an affidavit from a dealer stating how much less that they say the car will be worth. Given the finicky nature of P-car buyers, most will walk the second you divulge the amount of damage. That fact alone may drive up the costs sufficiently to prompt them to total it.