viper501

Just realized, whose insurance company are you dealing with? If it is the other driver's company, get your own involved and have them help push for a total loss on your car. There is no way that any reasonably knowledgeable P-car buyer is going to touch that car for anything close to its current undamaged value and it will only get worse as the car ages. Definitely fight them. Talk to an attorney who is not on television.

Dmitri

Thanks, again, everyone.

The engine and other issues that Porsche would need to address are currently "open" items. Porsche would get the car to pull the engine and transmission so that the body shop can put the car on their frame jig and straighten it out.

My own insurer is AMICA. They are handling the claim initially, and plan to pursue the at fault driver's insurer (assuming that the insurer doesn't admit liability).

Some fun.

viper501

They need to understand what Porsche's labor is going to be on that little item. They are starting down a very slippery slope here and you don't want that car back. I'd get all in their ... stuff ... about the fact that the car is already almost to half value without even considering the dimunition in value. I'd have a chat with the shop and the adjuster / inspector and point out *all* of the damages.

BTW, have you taken pictures yet? I'd get a bunch of shots from the front, back, sides, and underneath. Document the crap out of it. Then post a couple for us to help point out things ...

Duane993

Do worry about what you signed. That was before you knew the hidden damage. Send a letter to both your insurer and the bodyshop indicating you are recinding any authorization to repair the vehicle due to the increased estimate. The best you could ever hope for when you sell it is low wholesale blue book - poor condition. If you car has been serviced by a dealer get them pictures of the damage so they can at least visually assess any damage to the engine/tranny.

Meister Fahrer

Sorry to hear about the 405 accident, my buddy got sandwiched like that in his primo '57 Bug.
He also had to educate the insurance company, they were trying to screw him.
(Some people say we should get rid of lawyers??)

Yes, get more "expert opinions" to document your claim as afaik many dealers will not sell a car that has had frame damage.
Of course insurance companies don't want to pay out....

Dmitri

I agree with you, Duane, about telling the body shop to stand down until I've worked through these issues with the insurer. I'm assuming that this situation is something that the body shop encounters relatively frequently, and that if the car is totaled, someone (insurer) pays them for the time they spent to do the tear-down and for any restocking fee for parts ordered.

Thanks, and I'll keep you all posted on what happens.

Dmitri

Does anyone have a referral for an appraiser in the Southern California area? I'd like to be ready to roll in case of a dispute over the car valuation.

Thanks.

iii911ooo

Dmitri,

I am sorry to hear about your loss. I don't know about the laws in California, but I can provide an example of how it works in North Carolina.

I was recently in an accident in my 2005 BMW X3. I hit a deer with the right front of the X3 and the car that was following me struck me from the rear. The initial estimate for the repairs was about $7500 for the front damage, covered by my insurance (comprehensive) and about $7200 for the rear damage, covered by the other driver's liability insurance.

At the beginning of the process, I pushed the body shop to get the estimate to a level that would result in a total loss, which insurance companies in North Carolina define as 75% of the Kelly Blue Book average retail. For this car, the average retail was about $29K, meaning that the damage had to exceed $22K before they would declare it a total loss. If the damage results in a total loss, the insurance company writes you a check for the KBB average retail value.

Also, in North Carolina, the department of motor vehicles require you to disclose to the buyer, damage to the vehicle if it was more than 25% of the value of the vehicle at the time of the accident. Now, since the damage was less than 75% of the value but more than 25%, I have to disclose the damage to the next buyer. This is in addition to anything that will show up in the Carfax database.

Fortunately, for me, the car was a lease and I am turning it back in to BMW tomorrow and picking up my new 2008 328 coupe on Monday in Spartanburg. The diminished value is now BMW's problem. Out of curiosity, I discussed this situation with the dealer, and they indicated that they would be lucky to get $15K for it at auction due to the accident, even though the repair job was done very well. Otherwise, the wholesale value would be around $23K. So, in my case, the diminished value would have been about 1/3 of the wholesale value of the car.

Good luck with the process and don't settle for the insurance company's first offer.

Randy

Dmitri

Brief Update: The body shop's supplemental estimate puts damage at $28k, with a couple of items still open. So, this car is a total loss before you even get into issues such as diminished value.

The insurer's appraiser is going to look at the car next week, and we'll take it from there. I've checked prices at KBB, Edmunds, the Black Book, NADA. Any other places that I should be looking at to determine the fair value?

Thanks.

viper501

At a dealer that wants to sell you an expensive replacement ...

Trevor Ely

Good news!

I had a pretty good feeling this is how it would end up.

Duane993

Dmitri,
This is the outcome you wanted. Now its just up to you to negotiated high retail blue book with your insurance company. Since they will subrogate against the insurer of the guy that hit you, this shouldn't be an issue. Go online and print out from every dealer all cars that match yours. Use this as your baseline negotiating position. If they balk at the number....find a car you really want and tell them to buy it as a replacement for you. Also remember they have to also give you the sales tax based on value of your car that was totalled plus any prorated DMV fees.

akim47

good news that they are going to total out the car... was that you causing the major backup on the 405 near long beach the other week? j/k...

Dmitri

I should clarify that while I think the car is a total loss, my insurer hasn't come to that conclusion, yet. They'll send out their appraiser and may send the adjuster back. I'm hoping they don't try to nickel and dime the body shop estimate to bring it below a total (which, in my view would be foolish).

In terms of negotiating price, isnt part of that going to be affected by the damage figure? In other words, the higher the value of the car, the lower the percentage that damages represent of the total vehicle value, so at some point negotiating too high a figure take the vehicle out of the total loss scenario. I think my insurer uses 70% to determine whehter a vehicle is a total loss. (Is that exclusive of tax and licensing fees?)

If you were on the southbound 405 Freeway a week ago Thursday (2/21) near Westminster at 8:00 a.m., the Sig Alert that was holding you up was this accident.

1999Porsche911

You have unlimited leverage with ithe nsurance company. If in fact you were hit, I assume you are dealing with HIS insurance (through YOUR agent) and not yours. Do NOT sign a medical realease until you are totally satisfied, car is repaired and the engine is checked out, or you get exacty the amount of money you want for a totaled vehicle, even if your requirement is higher than the market. Remember, regardless of the value of your car, fight to recover the cost for you to replace the car with a similar one.

You will be amazed how an insurance company can sharpen their pencil in order to get you to sign a medical release. Often, people immediatley sign one and find that weeks later, the symptoms of injury begin to occur only to find they have no recourse.