Revo software trial impressions
#16
I looked into s/w upgrades for my 2004 996 X51 C2 last year, but nothing was available for the X51 variant. Softronic offers upgrades for 996 3.6 standard, 996 GT3, 996 turbo, and 996 turbo X50, but not for the X51. Maybe there are too few of them.
Regarding the price of the s/w for Porsches vs other makes, I think it's necessary to consider a couple of things before concluding it's a ripoff. It is true that flash upgrades realize higher hp and torque gains in turbos than in NA engines, so if one isn't satisfied with, say, the 20 hp gain Softronic claims for the 996 3.6 engine, I suppose one shouldn't buy it. As for the absolute price of the s/w, the supplier's business model should affect it. In the s/w business, the cost structure is heavily weighted toward development, and production is cheap. Therefore, product volume is a key factor in determining what price the supplier can charge. Let's suppose it costs the same for the company to develop a flash upgrade for a Porsche 996 and for an Audi A4 1.8T. And let's suppose that there is competition in the market (as there is here...GIAC, Softronic, etc.) so that the company cannot charge "monopolistic" prices. Logic then dictates that the supplier can charge less for the higher volume seller. Since there are more A4 1.8Ts in the world than 996s, the supplier could charge less for 1.8T flash than for 996 flash. I'm not saying it's entirely responsible for the price difference, but it's likely a significant part of it. So maybe the suppliers see Porsche owners coming from only "a kilometer away."
Regarding the price of the s/w for Porsches vs other makes, I think it's necessary to consider a couple of things before concluding it's a ripoff. It is true that flash upgrades realize higher hp and torque gains in turbos than in NA engines, so if one isn't satisfied with, say, the 20 hp gain Softronic claims for the 996 3.6 engine, I suppose one shouldn't buy it. As for the absolute price of the s/w, the supplier's business model should affect it. In the s/w business, the cost structure is heavily weighted toward development, and production is cheap. Therefore, product volume is a key factor in determining what price the supplier can charge. Let's suppose it costs the same for the company to develop a flash upgrade for a Porsche 996 and for an Audi A4 1.8T. And let's suppose that there is competition in the market (as there is here...GIAC, Softronic, etc.) so that the company cannot charge "monopolistic" prices. Logic then dictates that the supplier can charge less for the higher volume seller. Since there are more A4 1.8Ts in the world than 996s, the supplier could charge less for 1.8T flash than for 996 flash. I'm not saying it's entirely responsible for the price difference, but it's likely a significant part of it. So maybe the suppliers see Porsche owners coming from only "a kilometer away."
#17
Burning Brakes
I looked into s/w upgrades for my 2004 996 X51 C2 last year, but nothing was available for the X51 variant. Softronic offers upgrades for 996 3.6 standard, 996 GT3, 996 turbo, and 996 turbo X50, but not for the X51. Maybe there are too few of them.
Regarding the price of the s/w for Porsches vs other makes, I think it's necessary to consider a couple of things before concluding it's a ripoff. It is true that flash upgrades realize higher hp and torque gains in turbos than in NA engines, so if one isn't satisfied with, say, the 20 hp gain Softronic claims for the 996 3.6 engine, I suppose one shouldn't buy it. As for the absolute price of the s/w, the supplier's business model should affect it. In the s/w business, the cost structure is heavily weighted toward development, and production is cheap. Therefore, product volume is a key factor in determining what price the supplier can charge. Let's suppose it costs the same for the company to develop a flash upgrade for a Porsche 996 and for an Audi A4 1.8T. And let's suppose that there is competition in the market (as there is here...GIAC, Softronic, etc.) so that the company cannot charge "monopolistic" prices. Logic then dictates that the supplier can charge less for the higher volume seller. Since there are more A4 1.8Ts in the world than 996s, the supplier could charge less for 1.8T flash than for 996 flash. I'm not saying it's entirely responsible for the price difference, but it's likely a significant part of it. So maybe the suppliers see Porsche owners coming from only "a kilometer away."
Regarding the price of the s/w for Porsches vs other makes, I think it's necessary to consider a couple of things before concluding it's a ripoff. It is true that flash upgrades realize higher hp and torque gains in turbos than in NA engines, so if one isn't satisfied with, say, the 20 hp gain Softronic claims for the 996 3.6 engine, I suppose one shouldn't buy it. As for the absolute price of the s/w, the supplier's business model should affect it. In the s/w business, the cost structure is heavily weighted toward development, and production is cheap. Therefore, product volume is a key factor in determining what price the supplier can charge. Let's suppose it costs the same for the company to develop a flash upgrade for a Porsche 996 and for an Audi A4 1.8T. And let's suppose that there is competition in the market (as there is here...GIAC, Softronic, etc.) so that the company cannot charge "monopolistic" prices. Logic then dictates that the supplier can charge less for the higher volume seller. Since there are more A4 1.8Ts in the world than 996s, the supplier could charge less for 1.8T flash than for 996 flash. I'm not saying it's entirely responsible for the price difference, but it's likely a significant part of it. So maybe the suppliers see Porsche owners coming from only "a kilometer away."
However, I agree that there a tons of 1.8T Volkswagen/Audi engines out there and owners that want them flashed; much more than 996 3.4 or 996 3.6 engines and upgrade willing owners. The VW 1.8T and now the 2.0T engine (good example btw) is used for endless models, especially in Europe
VW: Golf, Passat, Turan, Tiguan, Sharan
Audi: A3, A4, A6, TT
Skoda
Seat
#18
I've always wondered, how much of the "performance enhancement" of an ECU flash is real increases in HP or torque vs. remapping the throttle to make it seem sportier. Especially with NA cars.
#19
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http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...d.php?t=114563
#20
Three Wheelin'
I'm told that Farnbacher Loles in CT has an ECU upgrade also. Does anyone know if they've made the modifications themselves or if they are using the GIAC flash?
#21
Theo
#23
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#25
Banned
It's hard for one's **** to notice a 20hp diff let alone the 5hp that may come from an ECU upgrade on an N/A engine.
Sure, my car is what they call Evo stage 2 meaning it combines the EVMOS intake with the GIAC flash, but guys, you guys are really desperate, soul searching for HP if you think these things actually make any sort of real difference in power.
I would not have spent the $1500 on the GIAC flash. I would go so far as to claim that it's done nothing for real world gains meaning if I raced someone who was once equal to me in a straight line, it'd be the same ol' story w/ flash.
Sure, my car is what they call Evo stage 2 meaning it combines the EVMOS intake with the GIAC flash, but guys, you guys are really desperate, soul searching for HP if you think these things actually make any sort of real difference in power.
I would not have spent the $1500 on the GIAC flash. I would go so far as to claim that it's done nothing for real world gains meaning if I raced someone who was once equal to me in a straight line, it'd be the same ol' story w/ flash.
#26
Burning Brakes
It's hard for one's **** to notice a 20hp diff let alone the 5hp that may come from an ECU upgrade on an N/A engine.
Sure, my car is what they call Evo stage 2 meaning it combines the EVMOS intake with the GIAC flash, but guys, you guys are really desperate, soul searching for HP if you think these things actually make any sort of real difference in power.
I would not have spent the $1500 on the GIAC flash. I would go so far as to claim that it's done nothing for real world gains meaning if I raced someone who was once equal to me in a straight line, it'd be the same ol' story w/ flash.
Sure, my car is what they call Evo stage 2 meaning it combines the EVMOS intake with the GIAC flash, but guys, you guys are really desperate, soul searching for HP if you think these things actually make any sort of real difference in power.
I would not have spent the $1500 on the GIAC flash. I would go so far as to claim that it's done nothing for real world gains meaning if I raced someone who was once equal to me in a straight line, it'd be the same ol' story w/ flash.
#27
Banned
Throttle response is like **** on the bottom of the foot with all due respect hwk.
I've never come across a car (S2000, M3, 911) where throttle response ever felt like **** or the car did not go when I wanted it to go.
Do you know what I'm saying? I ran the ECU stock for a little bit last year and I did noticed not a single difference from the flash setting.
I've never come across a car (S2000, M3, 911) where throttle response ever felt like **** or the car did not go when I wanted it to go.
Do you know what I'm saying? I ran the ECU stock for a little bit last year and I did noticed not a single difference from the flash setting.
#28
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I agree 100% with your first paragraph but from my experience your last paragraph is 100% incorrect.
It's hard for one's **** to notice a 20hp diff let alone the 5hp that may come from an ECU upgrade on an N/A engine.
Sure, my car is what they call Evo stage 2 meaning it combines the EVMOS intake with the GIAC flash, but guys, you guys are really desperate, soul searching for HP if you think these things actually make any sort of real difference in power.
I would not have spent the $1500 on the GIAC flash. I would go so far as to claim that it's done nothing for real world gains meaning if I raced someone who was once equal to me in a straight line, it'd be the same ol' story w/ flash.
Sure, my car is what they call Evo stage 2 meaning it combines the EVMOS intake with the GIAC flash, but guys, you guys are really desperate, soul searching for HP if you think these things actually make any sort of real difference in power.
I would not have spent the $1500 on the GIAC flash. I would go so far as to claim that it's done nothing for real world gains meaning if I raced someone who was once equal to me in a straight line, it'd be the same ol' story w/ flash.
#30
Some basic truths:
A product like the GIAC flash does make a difference.
The difference in most driving is more 'felt' than measurable. (These things are supposed to do a lot more than add horsepower, which you can't feel anyway).
If you don't feel it, it's not worth the money. If you do feel it, it is worth the money.
Dass it, dass all.
These products don't make the car 'better' than OEM, they make it different. The tuner might have different priorities about fuel economy, emissions, throttle response, low speed driveability, fuel tolerance, on and on, and a lot of them will be subjective. Think of it like tailoring. To me, this is as legitimately personal as wheel choice is.