67FJ45

I looked into s/w upgrades for my 2004 996 X51 C2 last year, but nothing was available for the X51 variant. Softronic offers upgrades for 996 3.6 standard, 996 GT3, 996 turbo, and 996 turbo X50, but not for the X51. Maybe there are too few of them.

Regarding the price of the s/w for Porsches vs other makes, I think it's necessary to consider a couple of things before concluding it's a ripoff. It is true that flash upgrades realize higher hp and torque gains in turbos than in NA engines, so if one isn't satisfied with, say, the 20 hp gain Softronic claims for the 996 3.6 engine, I suppose one shouldn't buy it. As for the absolute price of the s/w, the supplier's business model should affect it. In the s/w business, the cost structure is heavily weighted toward development, and production is cheap. Therefore, product volume is a key factor in determining what price the supplier can charge. Let's suppose it costs the same for the company to develop a flash upgrade for a Porsche 996 and for an Audi A4 1.8T. And let's suppose that there is competition in the market (as there is here...GIAC, Softronic, etc.) so that the company cannot charge "monopolistic" prices. Logic then dictates that the supplier can charge less for the higher volume seller. Since there are more A4 1.8Ts in the world than 996s, the supplier could charge less for 1.8T flash than for 996 flash. I'm not saying it's entirely responsible for the price difference, but it's likely a significant part of it. So maybe the suppliers see Porsche owners coming from only "a kilometer away."

hwk72

There are usually a lot of factors that determine the price of a product so it's a little too simple to say it's always cost + fixed margin. And to expect a perfect competitive environment is also not realistic. The handful of ECU tuners out there act more like being in an oligopoly. No one is interested in a price war and they know that Porsche guys are less price sensitive than Volkswagen guys so they all silently agree to keep the price high where it optimizes their margin.

However, I agree that there a tons of 1.8T Volkswagen/Audi engines out there and owners that want them flashed; much more than 996 3.4 or 996 3.6 engines and upgrade willing owners. The VW 1.8T and now the 2.0T engine (good example btw) is used for endless models, especially in Europe
VW: Golf, Passat, Turan, Tiguan, Sharan
Audi: A3, A4, A6, TT
Skoda
Seat

smackboy1

I've always wondered, how much of the "performance enhancement" of an ECU flash is real increases in HP or torque vs. remapping the throttle to make it seem sportier. Especially with NA cars.

wlee69

Here a post yesterday on 6-speed about a guy who ECU flashed his C4S with Softronic....

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...d.php?t=114563

nycebo

I'm told that Farnbacher Loles in CT has an ECU upgrade also. Does anyone know if they've made the modifications themselves or if they are using the GIAC flash?

GREEK-TURBO-RACER

They have used REVO in the past. Not sure what they use now since they carry propriatary software I heard.


Theo

washington dc porsche

It's funny to see that mostly Cabrio owners are in this post.

Kolshak

Maybe because we have a slight weight disadvantage to overcome....also have several people from the DC area.

jayster

Scott knows the guys at Farnbacher, ask them who they use, I doubt its Revo.

Benjamin Choi

It's hard for one's **** to notice a 20hp diff let alone the 5hp that may come from an ECU upgrade on an N/A engine.

Sure, my car is what they call Evo stage 2 meaning it combines the EVMOS intake with the GIAC flash, but guys, you guys are really desperate, soul searching for HP if you think these things actually make any sort of real difference in power.

I would not have spent the $1500 on the GIAC flash. I would go so far as to claim that it's done nothing for real world gains meaning if I raced someone who was once equal to me in a straight line, it'd be the same ol' story w/ flash.

hwk72

I'm not looking for real performance gains when I do these kind of mods. I got the GIAC flash some weeks ago and the main difference I feel in day to day driving is that I gained throttle response at low RPM. When I e.g. pushed the pedal at 2.5k - 3k RPM in 5th gear, my car was pretty lame prior to the GIAC flash. Now it's really sharp on the point and when I start without fully accelerating, the dead point when letting the clutch out is fully gone. These are the things I like about performance mods; they change the characteristics of the car (ECU flash, Plenum), the sound (CAI, exhaust, headers), the feel (LWFW) ... The ultimate performance change is marginal; but again that's not the point - at least not for me. BTW, the GIAC is $995 for the n/a 996 not $1,500.

Benjamin Choi

Throttle response is like **** on the bottom of the foot with all due respect hwk.

I've never come across a car (S2000, M3, 911) where throttle response ever felt like **** or the car did not go when I wanted it to go.

Do you know what I'm saying? I ran the ECU stock for a little bit last year and I did noticed not a single difference from the flash setting.

washington dc porsche

I agree 100% with your first paragraph but from my experience your last paragraph is 100% incorrect.

Benjamin Choi

washington, then make me eat crow and prove it by racing pre and then post with another car that's the baseline.

BruceP

Dude, don't even. I've seen this debate a million times on all kinds of forums, and there's never any objective proof that ever satisfies everybody, including wheel to wheel racing and dyno results. There's always some extenuating "yeah, but...".

Some basic truths:

A product like the GIAC flash does make a difference.

The difference in most driving is more 'felt' than measurable. (These things are supposed to do a lot more than add horsepower, which you can't feel anyway).

If you don't feel it, it's not worth the money. If you do feel it, it is worth the money.

Dass it, dass all.

These products don't make the car 'better' than OEM, they make it different. The tuner might have different priorities about fuel economy, emissions, throttle response, low speed driveability, fuel tolerance, on and on, and a lot of them will be subjective. Think of it like tailoring. To me, this is as legitimately personal as wheel choice is.