rountreed

IMHO in the looks department the Ausitn wins hands down, for driving the Porsche wins and for best engine the M6 wins. If money is no object and I could pick one then it would be the Austin, money being what it is however I would take the Porsche with no regrets. The BMW M6 could be the best car but between the i drive, the but ugly rear end and the lack of ability to utilize its horsepower it is again IMHO a very big miss in meeting its target, of course me being the target or people like me. Now the perfect car would be the Austin with the M6 engine, that would be great!

GSIRM3

Which one is the Austin?

htny

Owning a V10 car is a little different, the sound wears on you especially with the window cracked on one side, sounds like what is, two fives, always off to my ear especially when you're not really on it ( day to day ). really no way around it. Obviously that M motor is batsh*t crazy but I'm just not into V10s for everyday use, personal thing. Gimme the W-12 A8, fast enough,better looking to my eye, and no one knows you're speeding. Or a previous gen CL600/65

I actually like the short aston. the DBs are too elegant for my current life, perfectly proportioned and long but just not enough bite (in the design), and the big dog cars are way too muscle-bound for me. But from certain angles, that shorty v8 is just right. For the money I think a gran turismo is likely a lot more fun and will sound better, I'm looking forward to a little seat time (a friend of mine will be taking delivery this summer).

My favorite astons are the 90s Vantages, that to me is my first non-James Bond experience with Aston, and they were insanity.

I think at the end of the day most people have to make a decision, which one should I buy. I mean they're all great performers, will all have some issues, etc. I would not daily drive an Aston, I have friends whose families have profited much from the notion that this is possible. I don't like the M6's looks, which is subjective and herefore largely irrelevant. And if I was buying a 997, I would let tehm release the facelift car this year before I did it.

Benjamin Choi

as expected, sound points shared, htLA.

i'm just in love with the mansory db9 and vanquish S. i can remember vividly all the moments in my life when i was awed by the image of vehicle in motion. they are always lowered on nice wheels that are pushed out to the edges. it's just an insane enhancment to the presence of the car.

exempli gratia

-E46 M3 lowered on 19" ACS wheels here in my hometown (made me go damn)

-Black vanq S lowered on 20" deep dish black wheels with polished lip on bellevue way (hot damn)

-996 Turbo with aerokit lowered on 19s (ok so THAT is how to do up a 996)

-993 Turbo S lowered on 18" BBSs on 405 (wow what a beautiful car to this day)

the vanquish is the one with the most presence out of all of them and the others have presence as well, but i guess the rarity and exclusivity of the aston marque added up to just forming the perfect storm for me.

rountreed

Ben sorry Aston, damn spell check....all else remains same.

fast1

and the m6... it's not meant to be a sports car. who cares if it's heavy? it's stinking fast and will leave the lithe 997s in the dust in the straights. it's got a gem of an engine.

Your statement is not factual. According to R&T M6 times are 4.1 and 12.4 for the 0/60 and 1/4 respectively, whereas the 997S times for the 0/60 and 1/4 are 3.9 and 12.3. Granted that the times are almost identical, but there's no way that an M6 will leave a 997S in the dust. Moreover, the base price of the 997S is $79,100 whereas the M6 is $97,200. To me however the most important factor that makes any Porsche superior, from a Boxster to a GT2, is the driving feel. There's no other car that can match a Porsche in the way it communicates with the driver.

Chaos

AM +1

cdodkin

Apparently the AMs have issues sticking to twisty Italian roads, and don't float well in Italian lakes.....



even the one James Bond uses!

Benjamin Choi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUfJ94aKO0g

Yea, so you don't think the V10 Gallardo will kick the 997S's **** in the straights? Keep mag racing.

And the close mindedness does not serve you well. It makes you look like you got these silly Porsche blinders on, seriously. Superior? The M6 has superior comfort and interior space. It's a GT coupe. It does some things better than the 997S and vice versa.

I'd personally have a hard time picking one over the other. I do like both. Hear that? It's OK to like/appreciate both, but since we're straight line monkey racing here, the M6 will leave the 3.8 Carrera in the dust in the straights. That was my point that you were arguing and now are going home with an L.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isBoU_Is24g

Heck, even the 4.8 0-60mph E92 M3 beats the 997S.

htny

Warning: too long for a forum post, go ahead and skip if too boring and circuitous:

Yeah I feel you, Astons are a great choice to buy secondhand and mod in the US as they depreciate like stones because the secondary market is so localized, are comparatively rare and pretty much perfect looking if you want the Savile Row elegance, power, luxury etc. High tech but not wearing it on its sleeve. The Mansory people know how to do their thing, and Mansory + Vanquish can be poetry in motion. It's keeping them in motion that scares the sh*t out of me, and much of that may or may not be unjustified in this day and age. I just have seen friends with problems and heard about a lot more from people who are old to AM. A dealer whose inventory I see too much (nearly sold me Frank Sinatra's Miura a few years ago, but I was out of town and wanted to see it and didn't get back in time and I really should have done it and I didn't and I regret it, the end) does tons and tons of used Astons, and I just see a lot where I tend to be. Some of that may just be having an eye for them. I've heard people call them Jaguars, unwittingly, and in some cases they weren't that far off (the DB7 for example was Ian Callum's original design for the XK8, deftly passed up by the same geniuses who recently brought us the Mondeo err I mean X-type).

The new ones are more visually distinct but I think most Americans still think Jag when they see them, heck a lot of self proclaimed car enthusiasts I've met continue to think it's "Austin Martin" and I can't bring myself to correct them (but I don't correct people on Porsha either). One of my friends from school, whose father was a prominent west coast f-car dealer (I still dream about his F40) and AM importer, deeply indoctrinated me in fearing Aston reliability. He once said MacGyver, 8 spark plugs and 5 gallons of gas couldn't keep an Aston on the road. That sure they made cars but they were really in the bedding business. Flatbedding that is. This man sold 308s, 400is and Mondials. Boxers! 348s! F50s! I wanted to laugh, but I cried. I mean they're beautiful, Astons. Their reliability has likely improved somewhat with Ford (save jokes till end) providing a conduit to a more diverse group of suppliers for the formative years of most of the current lineup, and much of the infamous Aston roadside charm was admittedly due to the old incestual relationship between AM and those princes of darkness over at Lucas. I'm not brave enough to find out on my own dime. One of my seniors from school actually worked in a junior executive capacity at AM NA a couple of years back and told me some CANDID stories as well, further scaring me away. So while I can acknowledge they're beautiful, perhaps even good in the sack, I can't marry one or even date because I'm ruined for AM, at least for now. I'm not above renting though.

Still, I do remember visiting London starting in the mid 90s and seeing all these crazy Lotus and AM and TVR cars (in fact i saw my first Diablo Roadster in London as well), being amazed at how much variety they had, and then over the years noticing the difference in perceptions between our car cultures. Firstly, the Porsche 911s have a significantly higher relative price tag and reputation in England than they do here (A lot the English guys I know who move to America go out and buy a 911 before they buy a house, because mate, it's half the bloody price!), and AM/TVR/Jag are all wonderful but domestics, and providers (decreasingly so) of innumerable jobs and contracts (as well as recipients of subsidies). This creates some tension (it's why the always patriotic Clarkson always writes such glowing reviews of obvious non-players, like the new XK8), and both sides have their overly fervent and vocal supporters, similar to Vette v. 911 in the US. BMW does not enjoy a good reputation amongst most sports car people over there, but that's a different story entirely. Within that context, amongst the target audience of Top Gear, let's imagine that the 911 is included as the Pre-Conceived Winner (think BMW M-Whatever in a Car & Driver piece), the AMV8 is the Scrappy Hometown Hopeful (Corvette), and the BMW is the Fat Man's Car (usually a Jag or CLK or something over here). Seen through that cultural lens, the Top gear trio seems logical considering the audience.

I do believe that in the USA we tend to give Astons a free pass (Lambos too) simply due to their relative novelty and uncommon beauty. So here we don't really expect an Aston to be as competent an all-rounder as a Porsche when all is said and done, and that really is OK! It's where the term "exotic" comes from. But in England, the AM is no exotic, it's a hot domestic in that you see them, people love them and also bitch and moan about them. For a more culturally independent point of reference, you may consider that in Dubai, awash in exotics to the point where they're commonplace and everyone playing with infinity oil-bucks, you'll find opinions are generally middling to low of AM (ranging from the benign 'can't take the heat' to the usual 'POS' allegations). Much of that general opinion is, like my own, colored by the rep of 70s 80s 90s early 2000s Astons, and unlike my own, given irrespective of cost or depreciation. But the Dubai folks are obsessed over quality as measured by competence, reliability, fit and finish, and they attach a lot of value to it, and that's why there's very little bad to be heard about 911s over there, whether they're tuned to the moon or not.

911s are extremely familiar, and M3s much more so, and I don't think any car whose fundamental shape is so well known can ever have that extreme a visual impact. They're visually distinctive, but not exotic. In fact if we're talking about straight visual impressions, I bet you most girls standing in front of a nightclub (don't you love my cross section of people whom I assume don't know anything about cars) have no idea what's fresher between a glossy 993/996/997 with some shiny wheels. Sounds outlandish I know, especially on Rennlist where we split hairs for fun, but I got the "is that new" way too much last quarter in LA for that not to be at least somewhat true. In a Vanquish in the USA, you will most definitely get the "What is THAT?". Definitely exotic, not from around here, etc.

Also, let's not forget stickers. M3s in the 40s, 993TTS in the 140s, 996TTs in the 130s, Vanquish S with all that Mansory CF in the $250s. Different weight class. I think up there you're looking at a G Roadster, 430 Spider, and a Murci as the competition dollar for dollar, and the Vanq S begins to look downright civilized in that rare air!

OK since I've likely managed to offend the sensibilities of most of our Great Britain Rennlisters with my idle Sunday morning observations, (a bloody Corvette?), and put the rest of you to sleep with unending run on sentences and parentheticals, I'll stop!

rleeq

What are you trying to say?

htny

Sorry Lee I know that was very boring, just musing w/ Ben on Astons & English car culture v. US. And I wanted to see if it would lull all the magazine racing in this thread to sleep! Hahaha.

rleeq

Just pulling your chain. I did read the whole thing and I think it was a very well laid out observation.
Have a great day.

fast1

Yea, so you don't think the V10 Gallardo will kick the 997S's **** in the straights? Keep mag racing.

LOL And since I don't own either car, what am I supposed to do, look into my crystal ball. I don't believ that you'll find any publication that will back up your assertion. Keep in miind that we are talking about straight line acceleration. This isn't rocket science.

Benjamin Choi

3.9s to 60 and you're actually going to peg it on that?

You gotta be kidding me, bud. I'm just going to move on from this one. This is Porsche blinders at max setting right there.