Just came back from a local Porsche shop - Interesting news (3.4l oiling)
11-15-2007, 02:05 PM
#16
Drifting
I do not have experience building race car engines but this does not change the facts that I have stated. The 996's engine is certainly not bullet proof and increasing its factory redline will shorten the engines life-span. I am simply saying that you should take this into consideration if you choose to increase the factory programed redline. Of course, there is a big difference between hitting 7,800 RPM on the street here and there as opposed to hitting 7,800 RPMs all day at the track.
The 996 cup car engine is a pure race engine and its time between service intervals is measured in hours not miles. In order to extend the time between services, read rebuilds, Porsche recommends setting the redline lower on the engine. The lower the set redline the longer the engine can be run between service intervals. I think you would agree that Porsche has some experience building race engines, certainly more than a race shop in Georgia. LOL
11-15-2007, 02:44 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
As the RPM of an engine increases, so does the stress put on the various engine components. Porsche engines are designed to run for extended periods at high RPMs and you may very well be able to increase the facory redline of a 996 but make no mistake about it, doing so will also increase the stress on the engine dramatically.
I do not have experience building race car engines but this does not change the facts that I have stated. The 996's engine is certainly not bullet proof and increasing its factory redline will shorten the engines life-span. I am simply saying that you should take this into consideration if you choose to increase the factory programed redline. Of course, there is a big difference between hitting 7,800 RPM on the street here and there as opposed to hitting 7,800 RPMs all day at the track.
The 996 cup car engine is a pure race engine and its time between service intervals is measured in hours not miles. In order to extend the time between services, read rebuilds, Porsche recommends setting the redline lower on the engine. The lower the set redline the longer the engine can be run between service intervals. I think you would agree that Porsche has some experience building race engines, certainly more than a race shop in Georgia. LOL
I do not have experience building race car engines but this does not change the facts that I have stated. The 996's engine is certainly not bullet proof and increasing its factory redline will shorten the engines life-span. I am simply saying that you should take this into consideration if you choose to increase the factory programed redline. Of course, there is a big difference between hitting 7,800 RPM on the street here and there as opposed to hitting 7,800 RPMs all day at the track.
The 996 cup car engine is a pure race engine and its time between service intervals is measured in hours not miles. In order to extend the time between services, read rebuilds, Porsche recommends setting the redline lower on the engine. The lower the set redline the longer the engine can be run between service intervals. I think you would agree that Porsche has some experience building race engines, certainly more than a race shop in Georgia. LOL
There is just a bit more to it than simply just "increasing the factory redline."
Why on earth would that be the only thing done? When you increae the redline of a motor (any motor for that matter), the valve train needs to be improved. Meaning heavy springs, removal of hydraulic lifters and replaced with solid ones, heavier duty valve guides, the list goes on and on...
I was referring to a track only car in his shop. One that had a laundry list of modifications done to it.
Thanks for the obvious input though...
11-15-2007, 04:45 PM
#18
Drifting
FWIW, I was obviously not referring to a totally race prepped 3.4L motor. I was referring to those who simply chip their cars, many of the performance chips increase the engines redline without making any mods to the engines hardware. I was merely making the point that those that do this should maybe reconsider due to the incidents of engine failure reported by 996 owners. Many of my comments were far from obvious input to the uninitiated.
I don't appreciate the comment and pic BTW. I'll be in the Atlanta area in a few weeks, if that is were you are. I'd love to meet up and hear the captain comment in person.
I don't appreciate the comment and pic BTW. I'll be in the Atlanta area in a few weeks, if that is were you are. I'd love to meet up and hear the captain comment in person.
11-15-2007, 05:31 PM
#19
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Feel free...beer is always available for other Porsche-geek's like me.
(and...relax about the comment. Everyone here will tell you my sense of humor is a bit twisted.)
Cold beer is waiting. Just shoot me a PM. In the meantime...
(and...relax about the comment. Everyone here will tell you my sense of humor is a bit twisted.)
Cold beer is waiting. Just shoot me a PM. In the meantime...
11-16-2007, 02:26 AM
#20
Instructor
The most obvious advantage of the 3.4L over the 3.6L when it comes to increasing redline is the fact that it's a shorter stroke motor. This means less friction on the most basic level. I do not know the specs on intake/exhaust valve geometry, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are identical, which means the 3.4L will also have an advantage at higher rpm levels.
3.6L 3.78 X 3.26
3.4L 3.78 X 3.07
3.6L 3.78 X 3.26
3.4L 3.78 X 3.07
11-16-2007, 01:07 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
The most obvious advantage of the 3.4L over the 3.6L when it comes to increasing redline is the fact that it's a shorter stroke motor. This means less friction on the most basic level. I do not know the specs on intake/exhaust valve geometry, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are identical, which means the 3.4L will also have an advantage at higher rpm levels.
3.6L 3.78 X 3.26
3.4L 3.78 X 3.07
3.6L 3.78 X 3.26
3.4L 3.78 X 3.07
Ding, Ding - WINNAR!!
Exactly what the tech said...nicely done.
C.
11-16-2007, 08:53 PM
#26
Instructor
11-16-2007, 09:43 PM
#27
Every roadgoing engine has more power in it, if you're willing to make the sacrifices necessary to get it. Those sacrifices can be noise, fuel economy, emissions, low speed driveability, reliability, durability, on and on.
Any dolt can make an engine do one thing well. If only my car just had to do one thing.
11-16-2007, 11:56 PM
#28
Instructor
What cracks me up is people who think that Porsche left power on the table because they're stupider than some dudes on the internet.
Every roadgoing engine has more power in it, if you're willing to make the sacrifices necessary to get it. Those sacrifices can be noise, fuel economy, emissions, low speed driveability, reliability, durability, on and on.
Any dolt can make an engine do one thing well. If only my car just had to do one thing.
Every roadgoing engine has more power in it, if you're willing to make the sacrifices necessary to get it. Those sacrifices can be noise, fuel economy, emissions, low speed driveability, reliability, durability, on and on.
Any dolt can make an engine do one thing well. If only my car just had to do one thing.
P.S. there is no Santa Claus
11-17-2007, 01:43 AM
#29
I don't believe anyone here called anyone stupid (at least until you did). When taking anything from the design stage to a viable consumer product many compromises and engineering decisions have to be made along the way. (If you've ever taken part in creating a consumer product, you would understand this) And what is the number one priority of any public company? profit. That means cost cutting and timetables. A basic real world example would be the plenum. Here's a part that was obviously a cost cutting measure on the original engine. We now have superior options available. This might come as a shock to some but Porsche is not divine and all-knowing. Their engineers cannot bend time or pass through walls. They have to deal with bean counters and bureaucratic red tape just like the rest of us. I'm sorry I had to be the one to tell you.
P.S. there is no Santa Claus
P.S. there is no Santa Claus
Don't bring a knife to this gunfight, my condescending friend. 28 years in marketing, here, including several years in the car business (Toyota and Honda). I hate to shatter your little socialist fantasy, but there are many things brought to bear on taking a product to market besides profit. That simplistic, consumer-as-victim view you have of the world is, in fact, often the reason that products aren't as good as they could be.
P.S. There is no 100 mpg carburetor.
11-17-2007, 02:01 AM
#30
Instructor
If I've ever taken part in creating a consumer product?
Don't bring a knife to this gunfight, my condescending friend. 28 years in marketing, here, including several years in the car business (Toyota and Honda). I hate to shatter your little socialist fantasy, but there are many things brought to bear on taking a product to market besides profit. That simplistic, consumer-as-victim view you have of the world is, in fact, often the reason that products aren't as good as they could be.
P.S. There is no 100 mpg carburetor.
Don't bring a knife to this gunfight, my condescending friend. 28 years in marketing, here, including several years in the car business (Toyota and Honda). I hate to shatter your little socialist fantasy, but there are many things brought to bear on taking a product to market besides profit. That simplistic, consumer-as-victim view you have of the world is, in fact, often the reason that products aren't as good as they could be.
P.S. There is no 100 mpg carburetor.
