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03-24-2007, 02:18 AM
#91
Originally Posted by Tippy
Why would Porsche sell there 25hp for like $10-12k when all you need is a simple intake PIECE, not the whole intake like porsche sells. 
03-24-2007, 07:13 AM
#92
Intermediate
I'm not sure this mod will add any horsepower, but why do you guys say there is no room to gain power? Our engines are efficient, but definately not the most efficient out there! Honda B18C (intergra type R) makes more than 100 hp per liter. Our engines' efficiency doesn't even match a Integra GSR's. Yet, the Honda community had come up with bolt on mods that make power on those engines. My friend Loi who builds Honda motor squzzes out 250 whp from a 2.0 liter. I can prove that he does make that much power, because we raced on the highway, and he was neck to neck with my 99 3.4. I think there must be room to squeeze out more power, it's just that the mods for our cars are so damn expensive and fewer and fewer people want to buy those mods now. As a result, it greatly slows down the development of new mods that makes real power.
03-25-2007, 02:02 AM
#93
Racer
Originally Posted by kclipse
I'm not sure this mod will add any horsepower, but why do you guys say there is no room to gain power? Our engines are efficient, but definately not the most efficient out there! Honda B18C (intergra type R) makes more than 100 hp per liter. Our engines' efficiency doesn't even match a Integra GSR's. Yet, the Honda community had come up with bolt on mods that make power on those engines. My friend Loi who builds Honda motor squzzes out 250 whp from a 2.0 liter. I can prove that he does make that much power, because we raced on the highway, and he was neck to neck with my 99 3.4. I think there must be room to squeeze out more power, it's just that the mods for our cars are so damn expensive and fewer and fewer people want to buy those mods now. As a result, it greatly slows down the development of new mods that makes real power.
03-25-2007, 05:44 AM
#94
Intermediate
I don't know the exact spec. of his motor, you can call him up to find out if you're really curious. I wonder how he can do it too. And now he has a stroked out K26 motor (from TSX) making 300 hp NA -_-. I wish he can do the same magic to my car too, but we're seriously lack of parts for our engine... sighz~ I couldn't imagine a little NA honda motor can match my 3.4 on the straight (and with his new 300 hp motor, he will rape me). O yah, it's not BS, Loi is the top Honda tuner in So Cal, and a spoon distributor in USA.
http://www.sportcarmotion.com/index.htm
http://www.sportcarmotion.com/index.htm
03-30-2007, 04:29 AM
#95
Three Wheelin'
Here is a link to a 996 owner on the 6-speedonline site. He shows the before and after dyno results for the RSS plenum on his EVO SC'd car. The results look pretty impressive. He recommends it over a chip as a better bang for the buck. 
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=78328
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=78328
03-30-2007, 10:26 AM
#97
Intermediate
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Originally Posted by kclipse
I'm not sure this mod will add any horsepower, but why do you guys say there is no room to gain power? Our engines are efficient, but definately not the most efficient out there! Honda B18C (intergra type R) makes more than 100 hp per liter. Our engines' efficiency doesn't even match a Integra GSR's. Yet, the Honda community had come up with bolt on mods that make power on those engines. My friend Loi who builds Honda motor squzzes out 250 whp from a 2.0 liter. I can prove that he does make that much power, because we raced on the highway, and he was neck to neck with my 99 3.4. I think there must be room to squeeze out more power, it's just that the mods for our cars are so damn expensive and fewer and fewer people want to buy those mods now. As a result, it greatly slows down the development of new mods that makes real power.
This argument is supported by the fact that Porsche addresses just this area with its X-51 power kit. It gas flows the heads and valve seats and uses different cams to keep the inlet valves open longer (thus making the most of the small ports and valves). Porsche also uses an alloy inlet manifold to squeeze the very last ounce of efficiency out of the manifold to port interface (i.e. no lip or imperfections to impede gas flow). This is all in keeping with the argument the tuner put forward.
The key to getting power from these engines would therefore appear be bigger valves and ports but I'm not sure if the heads have enough meat on them to be able to do this. Even if it was possible, it would completely change the engine characteristics and not necessarily in a way that would be any good for road use.
In the absence of removing the main 'bottleneck' from this engine, changing parts that are not tthe limiting factor in the system will only lead to very small incremental improvements and this is borne out by all the (largely ineffective) bolt-on bits available for this engine.
03-30-2007, 10:59 AM
#98
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Define "Little effect".
Originally Posted by ianwallwork
I remember, some years ago, reading at length an article by a reputable German tuner (sorry, but can't find it now) that explained the reason that most bolt-on mods have little effect on the Carrera motor. The crux of the argument was that they don't address the most restrictive parts of the engine. From memory, the tuner stated that the valve and port sizes on this engine had been kept relatively small for an even torque output and this is where the biggest restrictions to increased top end power lie - they're simply too small to flow a lot more gas in naturally aspirated mode.
This argument is supported by the fact that Porsche addresses just this area with its X-51 power kit. It gas flows the heads and valve seats and uses different cams to keep the inlet valves open longer (thus making the most of the small ports and valves). Porsche also uses an alloy inlet manifold to squeeze the very last ounce of efficiency out of the manifold to port interface (i.e. no lip or imperfections to impede gas flow). This is all in keeping with the argument the tuner put forward.
The key to getting power from these engines would therefore appear be bigger valves and ports but I'm not sure if the heads have enough meat on them to be able to do this. Even if it was possible, it would completely change the engine characteristics and not necessarily in a way that would be any good for road use.
In the absence of removing the main 'bottleneck' from this engine, changing parts that are not tthe limiting factor in the system will only lead to very small incremental improvements and this is borne out by all the (largely ineffective) bolt-on bits available for this engine.
This argument is supported by the fact that Porsche addresses just this area with its X-51 power kit. It gas flows the heads and valve seats and uses different cams to keep the inlet valves open longer (thus making the most of the small ports and valves). Porsche also uses an alloy inlet manifold to squeeze the very last ounce of efficiency out of the manifold to port interface (i.e. no lip or imperfections to impede gas flow). This is all in keeping with the argument the tuner put forward.
The key to getting power from these engines would therefore appear be bigger valves and ports but I'm not sure if the heads have enough meat on them to be able to do this. Even if it was possible, it would completely change the engine characteristics and not necessarily in a way that would be any good for road use.
In the absence of removing the main 'bottleneck' from this engine, changing parts that are not tthe limiting factor in the system will only lead to very small incremental improvements and this is borne out by all the (largely ineffective) bolt-on bits available for this engine.
03-30-2007, 05:05 PM
#99
Three Wheelin'
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hmmmmm.,...... that's pushing out some impressive numbers for under $1K.......... i would like to see it on an NA car as well........... i've been following that site for a little bit............ i guess the numbers did come out right.......
03-31-2007, 04:53 AM
#100
Intermediate
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Originally Posted by washington dc porsche
Define "Little effect".
To put the definition in the form of an example:
+20bhp on a 320bhp motor (the most anyone ever really seems to get from all manner of bolt-on 'goodies' despite comedy claims to the contrary) is 6.25%. The cost of this 20bhp is horrendous! Intake, headers, cats, mufflers, plenums, remap etc. etc. for 6.25%. And 6% is barely noticeable in reality! That's what I call 'Little Effect' and frankly a waste of money.
Even X-51 at +25BHP = under 8% for how many thousand $$$?
Years ago, we used to get +25bhp on 100bhp carburetted Ford motors with a cam and carb change. That's +25% for a few hundred $$$. That's what I call 'Big Effect' and worthwhile!
04-03-2007, 03:09 AM
#102
Drifting
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ArneeA wrote: "How 'bout we just setup a 996TT group buy to solve our power-problems?"
THAT is the best suggestion I've seen so far. All you need is about $65K for a "bolt on" car...then it's a done deal. I'm in.
THAT is the best suggestion I've seen so far. All you need is about $65K for a "bolt on" car...then it's a done deal. I'm in.
