jasonfreed

the Audi Club in my area.

They requires a roll bar for all cab. The pop up things are not enough.

All of the documentation says the roll bar must be SCCA approved.

Does anyone know of an SCCA approved roll bar for a cab or if the Porsche one is SCCA approved?

Also, I'd rather not keep it in between events. For the bolt in type, how much of a pain is it to take in and out? (I work on my own cars and would like to do it myself.)

Thanks in advance.

99firehawk

its a huge pain to take it in and out

996 Convert

Don't know if the Porsche one is SCCA approved, but it really isn't that tough to take in and out. Out takes ten minutes. Putting it in the first time may take some time, but subsequent installations are less than a 30 minute job. You just need to be careful getting the bolt started so you don't strip the threads, but otherwise pretty straightforward.

LVDell

I have the Tequipment harness roll bar in my CAB and it is a PITA to take in and out. Once it is in you need to leave it in until you are ready to stop tracking that car. You would think it is an easy in and out thing but it is not. Also, this is not a single person job. I am probably going to be removing the Teq bar I have and selling it next month if my wife prefers the GT3 over the CAB at the track. Then we will both track the GT3 and return the CAB to street driving only. Feel free to PM if you have any questions about it.

hwk72

Do a lot of car groups require roll bars for 996 Cabriolets for their track events?

I'm doing events with below groups that are fine with the standard pop-ups of the 996 (I guess at least as you're not in their fastest group):

- Car Guys Inc.
- PCA Schattenbaum (NJ)
- PCA Potomac (DC area)
- NorthEast R32 group

LVDell

It's not so much that it is the car groups but rather the track. For example, most PCA regions/chapters have stated that the 9X6 cars have sufficient safety rollover protection and do not require the rollbar. But, at VIR they REQUIRE a rollbar for ALL open top cars. Remember, the track will trump the event organization if they have the HIGHER level of required safety protection.

jasonfreed

Thanks guys -

In this case, it is the Audi Club that is insisting on roll bars. I believe this is an insurance issue for the club.

I know for sure it's not a track rule since I've seen cabs on the track before.

It looks like the DAS rollbar is SCCA approved.

I'll check into the Porsche one.

LVDell

I should have added to my post that not only does the track trump the club if they have the higher level of safety equipment required but the club will also have the their own safety requirements and if they are higher than the track you will ALWAYS default to the HIGHER level of needed equipment.

MikeRosen

Your cab will not be allowed at an Audi Club event. Here are the Audi Club's rules right off their website:

Convertibles at Driving Schools:
The current guideline is the minimum recommendation set by ACNA.
Any track venue or ACNA Chapter may at their discretion set more stringent recommendations.

The recommended minimum guideline for consideration beginning January 1, 2006:

No convertibles will be allowed to participate at any ACNA driving school that takes place at a "race track" - This includes TTs, Boxsters, BMWs etc.
Vehicles with factory roll hoops and / or deployable roll over protection will not be allowed.

The above excluded vehicles will be allowed to participate at the following venues were maximum speed is not to exceed 50 MPH;

Exercises at a driving school if the exercises are not held on the track but in a confined area.
Autocross events if the maximum speed is controlled.
Teen driving clinics.
Winter driving schools.

For these vehicles to participate at these low speed events the broomstick rule must be enforced.
Minimum clearance, with helmet, of one>two inches below the imaginary line from the roll hoop to the top of the windshield frame.

For the above excluded vehicles to be allowed to participate at a "race track” the minimum requirements are;

A four point roll cage consisting of a main hoop behind the front seats with two rear braces.
A four and preferably five point safety harness.
Arm restraints are recommended but not required at this time.

Removable hard tops are not considered structural roofs. The only exception is if they meet the minimum "race track" requirements.

LVDell

I find it really irresponsible for them to allow 4pt belts but require a rollbar. They need to mandate 5/6pt harnesses if they are going to require a rollbar.

jasonfreed

Mike -

Those are the exact rules I was referring to and am familiar with.

As long as I put in a SCCA approved roll bar and it passes the broom stick rule AND I contact the event organizer prior, they WILL let me particpate.

I've done Audi events in the past (with my Audi S4) and tried to get the 996 out there after a car failure last year. I wanted to tow the S4 home and come back the next day in the 996. That's when this whole roll bar thing came up.

My issue is:

It must be an SCCA approved roll bar (not just any roll bar) - - that was the basis for my question.

MikeRosen

Have you been following the thread on the DE forum about the PCA's new rules for next year? I'm not sure where I come down on all this. Everyone has the same goal (safety). I've put on two ACNA schools, and I'm now working with the PCA here on one. Schroth makes a four point with an antisubmarining mechanism that they claim works. The PCA has it's new harness rules which generally make sense. However, you can still show up in a convertible that doesn't pass broomstick muster and go out with your standard lap belts. I find it hard to argue that convertible is safer than an A4 or M3 hardtop with the Schroth system.

jasonfreed

I haven't seen the post. Do you have a link?

I completely understand the reasoning behind the rules and in NO way disagree.

But, in order to play by the rules and use my 996 cab at an Audi event I need to install an SCCA approved roll bar. I'm happy to do it so I can use my 996 at a track day.

I just don't know which roll bars are approved and which are not.

MikeRosen

jasonfreed,

I hear ya. I was just on the SCCA website trying to find the regulation and couldn't come up with it.

The new for 2008 PCA harness rule I mentioned above is here:

The purpose of this email is to inform you of a change in the Driver’s Education National Standards regarding the use of safety harnesses which will become effective on Jan.1, 2008. The current “Equal Restraint” Standard states that both the student and instructor shall have the same restraint system.

The problem with this Standard is that it does not define the complete system, in terms of the type of seat to be used with a 5 or 6 point harness. The new “Harness” Standard (See below) is written to compliment the “Equal Restraint” Standard and will go into effect January 1, 2008, but a region may adopt the standard earlier.

The new standard states that if a harness system is installed, it must be used in conjunction with a seat with manufacturer supplied routing holes for the shoulder and anti-submarine belts. These routing holes insure that the belts will remain in place when needed. A one piece seat is recommended but not required for it may interfere with the operation of the OEM three piece belt required for street application.

Thank you for your help in implementing this new standard. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Pete Tremper
National DE Committee Chairman
Tremper9146@aol.com
(O)215.539.6379
(H)856.881.7049

jasonfreed

thanks for the info - I found the thread on the DE forum.

Looks like everyone will need track cars soon or stay stock