need help choosing a air intake
12-15-2006, 07:30 PM
#32
Instructor
Why is it that whoever doesn't agree with you is a "junior technician", smartass, or idiot?? Did I call you an idiot or smartass?? (forget it, don't answer that, I've read enough from you). Dude...it's amazing what a bit of cyber-anonymity will do to some people in the form of bravery. As an ex-Engineer you above all people should give credence to a counter point when it's backed by logic and scientific fact, well, as close as we can come to a controlled scientific test with an SAE dyno. Next time try not to let your emotion dictate your response...it's so much more eloquent to be rational.
My only point to you as an ex "process" Engineer is that I have yet to see EVO post a dyno on the value and benefit of their product. If you’re going to charge $595 for a CAI you had better back it with evidence that it is worth the expense, otherwise it's no different that a tin can and coffee filter.
Anyone else enjoying this?? And BTW, the next time you want to throw something of value away, try selling it to someone who might have use for it and donate the proceeds to charity.
My only point to you as an ex "process" Engineer is that I have yet to see EVO post a dyno on the value and benefit of their product. If you’re going to charge $595 for a CAI you had better back it with evidence that it is worth the expense, otherwise it's no different that a tin can and coffee filter.
Anyone else enjoying this?? And BTW, the next time you want to throw something of value away, try selling it to someone who might have use for it and donate the proceeds to charity.
12-15-2006, 07:36 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by jmchris01
Anyone else enjoying this?? And BTW, the next time you want to throw something of value away, try selling it to someone who might have use for it and donate the proceeds to charity.
12-16-2006, 09:52 AM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Russ Murphy
Dynographs aren't worthless when they're performed on the same dyno with the same settings and the same car to compare before and after mods. Pretty darn useful actually. I'd like to see somebody accurately tune a programmable engine management system without one (a dyno that is). 
Originally Posted by Russ Murphy
As far as 02's dyno which shows a 22 hp improvement in just such a case being "nebulous" - I'd say thats quite a stretch. How can you ask for more documentation than a before and after dyno?
Instead, my time trap speed runs (run in both directions to account for wind) will tell you if there's a noticeable impact along the rev band. It's not that I don't like dynos, it's just that I like stopwatches a whole lot better. If the dyno shows a power gain, but the watches don't, then really we're just talking about bragging rights and lighter wallets, right?
12-16-2006, 11:29 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by nycebo
Fair point.
The point is this, I've done a ton of dyno work in the past on my motorcycle, and you'd be amazed how different the readings are even on the same vehicle on different days. There's just two many factors that go into the calculation for it to be anything but a rough gauge.
Instead, my time trap speed runs (run in both directions to account for wind) will tell you if there's a noticeable impact along the rev band. It's not that I don't like dynos, it's just that I like stopwatches a whole lot better. If the dyno shows a power gain, but the watches don't, then really we're just talking about bragging rights and lighter wallets, right?
The point is this, I've done a ton of dyno work in the past on my motorcycle, and you'd be amazed how different the readings are even on the same vehicle on different days. There's just two many factors that go into the calculation for it to be anything but a rough gauge.
Instead, my time trap speed runs (run in both directions to account for wind) will tell you if there's a noticeable impact along the rev band. It's not that I don't like dynos, it's just that I like stopwatches a whole lot better. If the dyno shows a power gain, but the watches don't, then really we're just talking about bragging rights and lighter wallets, right?
You're right. The watch won't lie. Mostly.
I'll be doing a before and after 3rd gear run with my muffler bypass pipes/K&N combo.
12-16-2006, 11:35 AM
#36
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I'm not jumping into this timeless debate about HP gains & dyno results from CAI's.
I have the K&N series 63 - the instructions were crap and it did come missing pieces. After 300 miles I popped the CEL, MAF, PSM trifecta. I was seriously disappointed at the thought of removing it because I loved the sound. The front line customer service people were worthless but I kept after it & got through to the engineer of the 63 series. He worked closely with me to fix the problem and they eventually replaced my MAF free of charge. SInce replacing the MAF it's been 3,000 trouble free miles.
It's probably to late, but if anyone needs the contact info for the series 63 engineers send me a PM.
I have the K&N series 63 - the instructions were crap and it did come missing pieces. After 300 miles I popped the CEL, MAF, PSM trifecta. I was seriously disappointed at the thought of removing it because I loved the sound. The front line customer service people were worthless but I kept after it & got through to the engineer of the 63 series. He worked closely with me to fix the problem and they eventually replaced my MAF free of charge. SInce replacing the MAF it's been 3,000 trouble free miles.
It's probably to late, but if anyone needs the contact info for the series 63 engineers send me a PM.
12-16-2006, 02:05 PM
#37
Originally Posted by Kolshak
I'm not jumping into this timeless debate about HP gains & dyno results from CAI's.
I have the K&N series 63 - the instructions were crap and it did come missing pieces. After 300 miles I popped the CEL, MAF, PSM trifecta. I was seriously disappointed at the thought of removing it because I loved the sound. The front line customer service people were worthless but I kept after it & got through to the engineer of the 63 series. He worked closely with me to fix the problem and they eventually replaced my MAF free of charge. SInce replacing the MAF it's been 3,000 trouble free miles.
It's probably to late, but if anyone needs the contact info for the series 63 engineers send me a PM.
I have the K&N series 63 - the instructions were crap and it did come missing pieces. After 300 miles I popped the CEL, MAF, PSM trifecta. I was seriously disappointed at the thought of removing it because I loved the sound. The front line customer service people were worthless but I kept after it & got through to the engineer of the 63 series. He worked closely with me to fix the problem and they eventually replaced my MAF free of charge. SInce replacing the MAF it's been 3,000 trouble free miles.
It's probably to late, but if anyone needs the contact info for the series 63 engineers send me a PM.
The oil on the K&N filter gets into the MAF and destroys it.
I filed a complaint with K&N and was even stupid enough to send my blown MAF to them. As a 'thank you' for assisting to their product research (which seems to have taken place post-launch), their customer service infomed me that their lab results indicated that the MAF was blown due to the 'silicone' that's part of the MAF. Duh ?
Net, several of us went through the same syndrome : ABS and PSM lights coming on within hours or days of install, blown MAFs, CELs.
There is such a thing as statistical relevance. The six sig black belt will understand that
The only way to fix the issue is to buy a new MAF and replace the K&N filter by a dry filter such as AEM.
As far as K&N as a company is concerned, their mission and values seems to be miles away from the Porsche one. Which is exactly why they should stay out of the Porsche aftermarket parts place.
And yes, I got so frustrated with that piece of junk that I threw it away. Selling it to another Porsche owner would have been unfair.
12-16-2006, 09:40 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by yvesatlanta
The only way to fix the issue is to buy a new MAF and replace the K&N filter by a dry filter such as AEM.
AEM Filter list
Thanks!
12-18-2006, 01:31 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by jmchris01
Why is it that whoever doesn't agree with you is a "junior technician", smartass, or idiot?? Did I call you an idiot or smartass?? (forget it, don't answer that, I've read enough from you). Dude...it's amazing what a bit of cyber-anonymity will do to some people in the form of bravery. As an ex-Engineer you above all people should give credence to a counter point when it's backed by logic and scientific fact, well, as close as we can come to a controlled scientific test with an SAE dyno. Next time try not to let your emotion dictate your response...it's so much more eloquent to be rational.
My only point to you as an ex "process" Engineer is that I have yet to see EVO post a dyno on the value and benefit of their product. If you’re going to charge $595 for a CAI you had better back it with evidence that it is worth the expense, otherwise it's no different that a tin can and coffee filter.
Anyone else enjoying this?? And BTW, the next time you want to throw something of value away, try selling it to someone who might have use for it and donate the proceeds to charity.
My only point to you as an ex "process" Engineer is that I have yet to see EVO post a dyno on the value and benefit of their product. If you’re going to charge $595 for a CAI you had better back it with evidence that it is worth the expense, otherwise it's no different that a tin can and coffee filter.
Anyone else enjoying this?? And BTW, the next time you want to throw something of value away, try selling it to someone who might have use for it and donate the proceeds to charity.
You obviously can't read or undserstand the thread as you've misquoted me several times now. So yes, you are a dolt. and yes, you are pompous, nobody cares about your qualifications (even though you probably made them up). I didn't go into mine, I merely stated and ex occupation to validify I understand instructions and should be able to follow the assembly process. I only shared my experience and then said I still like the KN. I never said anything about dynos or comparing to evo for performance, that was another poster. You are beginning to sound like the dolt on the KN phone, where do you work? Perhaps you have an axe to grind.................. See you later, junior.
12-18-2006, 01:13 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
K&N
Interesting discussion about the K&N cold air intake and the "oiled" filter. Did you re-oil the filter before it destroyed the MAF?
I've one on my way too and talked to my mechanic who tells me that the orignal open filter should not harm anything if you don't re-oil it which is not necessary, especially not when first installed.
After all the trouble I read about the K&N installation, I decided to get it installed by a professional. I got two independent offers for 1.5 hours labor each.
Harold
I've one on my way too and talked to my mechanic who tells me that the orignal open filter should not harm anything if you don't re-oil it which is not necessary, especially not when first installed.
After all the trouble I read about the K&N installation, I decided to get it installed by a professional. I got two independent offers for 1.5 hours labor each.
Harold
12-18-2006, 08:16 PM
#42
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http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/massair.htm
After the installing the series 63 & getting a roached MAF I read about many P-owners with the same problem & I don't think any had re-oiled them. Many believe the filters come over oiled, and would either wrap them in newspaper overnight or purchase a dry filter. The engineers at K&N say over oiling ruining MAF's is just urban legend (see the official response).
If you do have a problem don't waste your time with customer service people and demand to speak with the engineer.
1.5 hours labor is fair for an indie.
After the installing the series 63 & getting a roached MAF I read about many P-owners with the same problem & I don't think any had re-oiled them. Many believe the filters come over oiled, and would either wrap them in newspaper overnight or purchase a dry filter. The engineers at K&N say over oiling ruining MAF's is just urban legend (see the official response).
If you do have a problem don't waste your time with customer service people and demand to speak with the engineer.
1.5 hours labor is fair for an indie.
12-19-2006, 08:58 AM
#43
Instructor
Originally Posted by dallasboats
You obviously can't read or undserstand the thread as you've misquoted me several times now. So yes, you are a dolt. and yes, you are pompous, nobody cares about your qualifications (even though you probably made them up). I didn't go into mine, I merely stated and ex occupation to validify I understand instructions and should be able to follow the assembly process. I only shared my experience and then said I still like the KN. I never said anything about dynos or comparing to evo for performance, that was another poster. You are beginning to sound like the dolt on the KN phone, where do you work? Perhaps you have an axe to grind.................. See you later, junior.
It is quite obvious through your over use of adolescent rhetoric that you suffer from an acute case of inferior intelligence and that you lack the capacity and social grace to maintain a civil discussion based on opposing points of view.
It is no wonder that you are an ex "process" (pseudo) engineer…sorry dude, it’s just not feasible to obtain and Engineering degree in Business Service Management (i.e. process-engineering) from an accredited university. The curriculum does not exist.
Quite frankly I am perplexed that someone of your diminished ability can muster up the resources to acquire a Porsche….or did your Mommy and Daddy buy it for you??
Man, you have got to get a life!
Try not to let this ruin your holiday season.
12-19-2006, 01:41 PM
#44
Just my humble .02 on the MAFS thing... I think that Mass Airflow Sensors are consumable items on most cars. I've seen the argument a million times about the K&N filter on different forums, with legions of people claiming vigorously that they wreck MAFSs and roughly equal numbers claiming equally vigorously that they don't and that they liberate power.
My belief is, properly used, a K&N filter won't hurt anything (I've used several, on five different cars). Furthermore, I think that if you believe they make power, you won't be scared of replacing a MAFS every couple of years. They don't cost that much, and WAY less than some other ways of 'making power'. And further furthermore, my modest experience is that the more poorly designed an intake is, the better job a K&N will do. I could actually feel the difference on my Jeep Wrangler. On my Bimmer, bupkus. I'm not even bothering on the 996. Just looking at the intake, it doesn't seem to me like there's much room for improvement. Just my choice.
I think power gains from intakes are like sasquatch sightings. The believers REALLY believe. The rest think they're nuts. And, again, if you actually saw that sasquatch, the price of a MAFS shouldn't scare you.
My belief is, properly used, a K&N filter won't hurt anything (I've used several, on five different cars). Furthermore, I think that if you believe they make power, you won't be scared of replacing a MAFS every couple of years. They don't cost that much, and WAY less than some other ways of 'making power'. And further furthermore, my modest experience is that the more poorly designed an intake is, the better job a K&N will do. I could actually feel the difference on my Jeep Wrangler. On my Bimmer, bupkus. I'm not even bothering on the 996. Just looking at the intake, it doesn't seem to me like there's much room for improvement. Just my choice.
I think power gains from intakes are like sasquatch sightings. The believers REALLY believe. The rest think they're nuts. And, again, if you actually saw that sasquatch, the price of a MAFS shouldn't scare you.
12-19-2006, 04:10 PM
#45
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jmchris, you have your head stuck in the sand. And yes, I own several Porsches and other exotics. Why, because people like you, work for me. I'll bet someone has their finger on your head at this very moment...............