99firehawk

The problem is that these engines dont get replaced becasue they have worn piston rings or worn bearings, they fail with broken ims or broken timing chains. That scatters metal through the engine and casues lots oif damage to the cast in bearing surfaces and the cylinder walls , that cant be repaired and after you tally up all the new parts and a pair of heads and lifters and everything your still better off with the replacement. In the evet of an intermix, same thing you have coolant in the oil destroys bearing surfaces and you often cannot isolate the source of the mix, theres no practial way to find it, Even with a sonic device or an x ray im not sure you could find it. I will say most intermix is from failed oil coolers theres a tsb on that.

If you had a high milage engine that used oil and was worn out it could be rebuilt (i dont know how many guys out there who Id feel comfortable doing the job im sure theres alot of old timers in dealers that could do it) but figure your going to pay 35-45 hours of labor for a rebuild at the shops labor rate
figure 100 an hour thats 3-4k in labor alone, and you still need parts.
Modern engines in all makes and models are replacement now rebuilds are a thing of the past

Adrian

Brad,
Just today I have found five European companies who are or are gearing up to provide M86 and M96 engine rebuilds at various levels from just a top end to a full rebuild or exchange engine programs with all the problems fixed hopefully forever. None of these companies will be offering their product or services into the USA though.
I also hear what you say, but as a DIYer (when I can) I do not agree with you. It might be the easy way out for now, but not if, but when, the Porsche 3.4L engine rebuild program ends or simply becomes far too expensive, what do 996 owners do then?
The 996 is going to be very hard to sell in the future if prospective buyers believe they could drive away and if they have an engine problem they will be facing a 14K $US engine replacement bill. A lot of people already believe this and we have no data to support or reject their beliefs. The 964 suffered from the same reputation in the 1990s.
By the way Dekra in Germany are showing the 996 running at around 77% of owners reporting no problems after 7 years. Where the 996 fell down badly was in the first three years of ownership or the first 50,000km (30,000 miles). Strangely the Porsche Boxster was the reverse. Showed up well in the first three years and then went south afterwards.
Ciao,
Adrian.

BruceP

That's very interesting. So I have a new-to-me '00 C2 with 78,000km on the clock. I just voluntarily had the RMS done, and while things were apart they did a motorvac and flushed and filled the cooling system (and a few hundred other things to make it virginal for me). Clean bill of health. I realize nobody has a crystal ball, but can I interpret your datum to mean that I can relax a bit because, since it's got some miles on it, I've probably got a good motor?

Thanks. Don't mean to hijack the thread, but this one caught my eye.

pl

future is anybody's guess. but at least for another 5 years, porsche will be happy to do rebuild 996 for the currect price. after all, they make $$

Adrian

Bruce,
My current data I have collected tends to suggest that you are quite safe regarding the corroded oil/coolant passages and the intermixing of oil with the coolant.
This problem tended to occur on a batch of engines at low mileage. I am not sure how many people have had this problem and over which model years, but the one in this thread only had 24K miles on it. Under normal circumstances this problem would have occurred within the first three years of ownership and would have been covered by warranty.
I am a long way off proving what I believe (I have requested data from Porsche, but only time will tell if I get any), but I am comfortable in saying that if you have reached around 50,000 plus miles I reckon you will get some useful life out of the engine. I cannot speak against plain old bad luck of course.
I have a 99 3.4L and I am not worried at all. It has 60,000 miles on the clock and if it made it this far I reckon I am good.
On the coolant and oil problem I have not found a place here in Europe that has had an engine in for this problem yet. Maybe all that were going to fail did, and were fixed under warranty? Very rare to find a low mileage MY98 or 99 normally aspirated 996 around these parts.
Ciao,
Adrian

Macster

top of one of the 2 middle cylinders. Crack starts out running down cylinder, maybe an inch or so down.

Shortly afterwards, a parallel crack an inch or so away from the 1st one will develop.

At first oil and coolant will intermix and engine may run hot, overheat.

If the car is continued to be driven, a 'D' shaped section of the cylinder wall will eventually break out and fall into cylinder. At this point engine suffers catastrophic engine failure as cylinder wall piece gets pounded to pieces by piston.

A UK company takes these blocks -- before this happens before piece of cylinder wall breaks loose -- and bores/sleeves block and rebuilds engine. Engine displacement increases are available but then new pistons/rings are required.

Reports are not all in yet, but this repair appears to resurrect the engine.

Don't know cost. Don't know if the service is available to USA customers or if a shop in the USA is doing this fix.

If the engine can't be fixed this way, you are left looking at sourcing engine from dealership, or from a Porsche salvage yard.

From the dealership comes with warranty -- if dealership installs new engine -- while the engine from a salvage yard might only come with a guarantee engine will run.

Ideally, you'd want an engine from a salvage yard that you can hear run in car before removing engine but finding one in this condition is rare.

Sincerely,

Macster.

JasonAndreas

The price list I put together is the Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP). But the engines are available to anybody living in the USA from dealers for wholesale + 15% which is where I got the original number i posted. No matter who you buy from you will still have the 2 year warranty. Your local dealer might even price match you just have to ask.

pj911

Thanks Macster, but this type of failure sounds like it would be visable. The mechanic has closely inspected all visable parts of the engine for cracks, but can not find any.

Sincerely,
PJ

pj911

Thank you everyone for the input. I did purchase an aftermarket warranty on the car. I understand they are sending a rep to the dealership to inspect, but have some reluctance cover the claim since there is no official diagnosis of the failure. I expect to hear in the next few day and will keep everyone updated.

Thanks Again,
PJ

pj911

sorry for all the typos and poor grammer above, it is getting late!

PJ

joes c4 cab

"I have requested data from Porsche, but only time will tell if I get any), but I am comfortable in saying that if you have reached around 50,000 plus miles I reckon you will get some useful life out of the engine. I cannot speak against plain old bad luck of course."

I would be very interested in whether you can obtain any info on the NUMBER of failures of this engine from Porsche in your country.

When I bought my 996 the general concensus was that if your engine made it past 20K that you were "probably safe" since so many failed very early on due to intermix. However, mine failed at 54K due to cracked cylinder wall.

There is a guy named Jeff at Auto Strasse in Costa Mesa/Newport doing "rebuilds." He is buying up old blocks and using the good parts to fix other motors. He is asking about $5500 I think, but only offers a 6 month warranty. Best of luck

newport996

Warranties will only replace an engine with the SAME engine......I tried to get a 3.6L when mine went and they quickly declined.....

newport996

I had the same problem....the way ot was explainedto me was the channels in the engine block wear down inside the block, then coolant and oil can mix. It is near impossible for the dealer to find EXACTLY where and unless they replace the block, they cannot fix it. the dealers cannot get just a block from Porsche, so the only dealer option is to replace the engine. An independent may source a used block and use your other components. But the expense of this may make an engine replacement the better alternative. The engines are not rebuilt, they are remanufactured. What that means is they have never been sold to a customer. they failed an initial engine test for whatever reason, were pulled apart, the block was x-rayed and examined to make sure it was structurally sound, they internal parts were replaced with NEW parts, then reassembled, then this engine is retested. If passed it gets put in the remanufactured pile to be used for replacements. Porsche says these engines are usually stronger then the ones they replace, and are more reliable. they have all the latest updates available.

fast1

I see lots of 996s that are sold just a few months before their warranty expires, and now I know why. You were very prudent to buy an aftermarket warranty. Best of luck with your car.

The 996 is going to be very hard to sell in the future if prospective buyers believe they could drive away and if they have an engine problem they will be facing a 14K $US engine replacement bill. A lot of people already believe this and we have no data to support or reject their beliefs. The 964 suffered from the same reputation in the 1990s.

They are already hard to sell according to a couple of friends that I have who work at Valley Motors and Len Stoler in MD. This is affecting their 997 sales because prospective buyers get upset when they are quoted a tradein price for their 996s which is substantially below the tradein prices listed in KBB.

J.Seven

Can you give the name of this european company who makes this rebuilds?
My engine failed with 50000Km , it was a May 99 C2. Went to Local Porsche dealer where car was assisted and asked forr a new engine, I would pay the labour and fluids. Local Porsche dealer deny any financial help and quoted me 5500 euros plus 21 tax for a rebuid engine with two years warranty plus labour. Final bill round 9000 euros. Their normal procedure is to check the ECU to see if there was any over rev situation and check the running hours of the engine to see if it matches the speedo reading. Only then theyīll study your case. In my car there was no over rev situation and engine running hours match the speedo, even so they didnīt want to give me an engine for free.
Made two letters to Porsche in Germany which they respond but told me they couldnīt do anything for my because my car was out of warranty period.

So i ended up paying the bill from my pocket and sold the car just after because was told from a reliable source, that even the rebuid engines tend to blow.
They have many M96 rebuild engine at the factory, and if you want one just call your Porsche dealer and he will get it in maximum two to three days if youīre in Europe, itīs like asking for a clucth or catalic converters, they have them in stock and this really speaks for itself, (actually the clucth and c.converter may last more than the engine )these engine are blowing at a daily rate thrue out the world.

So anyone who has a blown 996 engine, just go to your dealer and he will drop a new engine for 8000 to 9000 euros depending on the Country, it comes with two years warranty and I believe itīs the best way to cure the problem, but sell it just after if you donīt want to have some severe headackes in the future.

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...&page=0#102121

J.Seven