Who has gone from a 993 -> a 996?
07-13-2006, 10:47 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by Mark Wilson
That's funny - I have some German blood in me......
Anyhoo, I went from a 964 to a 993 to a "I can't have a Porsche in NYC" to "I can't NOT"! and picking up my Arctic/black 01 TT ten days ago. Love it -- stock for now. I need to learn more but the package and prices right now made it irresistible.
07-25-2006, 11:47 PM
#62
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For a current 95 C4 993 owner, my next upgrade with be the 97 Turbo with little brother 95 C4 as sitting next to it. I also have a 77 Bronco Sport which is sweet. It gets more turns and compliments than my C4 and great to drive in the summer. Neither are daily drivers and just toys, without female names.
07-26-2006, 01:09 PM
#63
Pro
I found this timely, since I've been thinking about making the same move. I went from a Boxster to a 993C4, so there is some familiarity that I'm moving towards (my wife misses it more than me, so I guess there's a measure of domestic tranquility that goes a long way 
).
As a daily, I can see the advantage of the 996. I can't track my 993 w/o mods, since it's a cab, and I could do that with a 996 that has an optional HT. Also, as cabs go, I'd really like to say goodbye to that $#@%$!@ boot on the 993. People who wonder why I take chances on rain, only have to mess with the boot everytime te car is parked to figure out why.
As much as I love my 993, I figure I should sell it while the market is holding, and take advantage of buying a newer car for only a couple thou more.
). As a daily, I can see the advantage of the 996. I can't track my 993 w/o mods, since it's a cab, and I could do that with a 996 that has an optional HT. Also, as cabs go, I'd really like to say goodbye to that $#@%$!@ boot on the 993. People who wonder why I take chances on rain, only have to mess with the boot everytime te car is parked to figure out why.
As much as I love my 993, I figure I should sell it while the market is holding, and take advantage of buying a newer car for only a couple thou more.
12-15-2007, 10:45 AM
#64
Instructor
I just bought a lapis blue 2002 C4S to replace my 95 C2. Just waiting for the shipper to pick it up. The good/bad news is that I can't sell the 993 until Spring here in the Midwest. Guess I'll just have to drive both until then. (I would love to keep both.)
12-15-2007, 05:33 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
I also went the other way. I purchased a brand new 99 996 and again another one in 2001. Interestingly, the 2001 was night and day the better car than the 99 which (b/c I suspect was such an early build from 9/98)...was a disaster. Porsche ultimately bought the car back in gave me the 2001 but still....I went back to a 97 993 (having also owned an 80SC and 87 Carrera). I absolutely love it.
By all accounts the 996 is more comfortable for daily driver duties and is certainly more "capable" than the 993 but to me there's still no comparison. The 993 represents the essence of Porsche (call it the first chapter if you will). To own the last of the air cooled cars you do get the sensation that it's entire existence is influenced by form following function, the charm of air cooled technology that can never be had again and an overall package that clearly is a result of the engineers last say not the marketing department. It's also built to last (by hand) and it shows. Like a baseball glove it's never felt better even at 73K on the clock. That's not to diminish by ANY means the 996 and later water cooled cars but clearly their first clean sheet design (99-04), with a major emphasis on cost sharing parts, etc...left lots of margin to improve, evolve, etc....as was the case when the 911 was born 40 some odd years earlier. If I could have any car in the lineup today....the 997GT3. But that's just my opinion.
By all accounts the 996 is more comfortable for daily driver duties and is certainly more "capable" than the 993 but to me there's still no comparison. The 993 represents the essence of Porsche (call it the first chapter if you will). To own the last of the air cooled cars you do get the sensation that it's entire existence is influenced by form following function, the charm of air cooled technology that can never be had again and an overall package that clearly is a result of the engineers last say not the marketing department. It's also built to last (by hand) and it shows. Like a baseball glove it's never felt better even at 73K on the clock. That's not to diminish by ANY means the 996 and later water cooled cars but clearly their first clean sheet design (99-04), with a major emphasis on cost sharing parts, etc...left lots of margin to improve, evolve, etc....as was the case when the 911 was born 40 some odd years earlier. If I could have any car in the lineup today....the 997GT3. But that's just my opinion.
12-16-2007, 12:07 PM
#66
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It's been 2 years since I switched. Here's the "long term update":
--- From 1996 993TT to 2003 996 C4S ---
#1. I still miss the 993 seats!
#2. I no longer miss the power of the 993TT, but it took about $6K to get the X51 motor up to 400 horsepower.
#3. I love the 996 suspension and PSM. After adding the RoW M030 front end to fix the understeer, the 996 "came alive" on the street and the track.
#4. I love the convenience of the 996. A little bigger, a little smoother. Much nicer all around for daily driving.
#5. After about $2K in wood and leather upgrades, the interior is "almost" as warm and cozy as the 993. But I will never feel as "connected" to the 996.
In general, I'm glad I switched, but only because I sank another $10K into "fixing" the 996. If I was just looking for a nice, used Porsche, I'd have to go with the 993.
--- From 1996 993TT to 2003 996 C4S ---
#1. I still miss the 993 seats!
#2. I no longer miss the power of the 993TT, but it took about $6K to get the X51 motor up to 400 horsepower.
#3. I love the 996 suspension and PSM. After adding the RoW M030 front end to fix the understeer, the 996 "came alive" on the street and the track.
#4. I love the convenience of the 996. A little bigger, a little smoother. Much nicer all around for daily driving.
#5. After about $2K in wood and leather upgrades, the interior is "almost" as warm and cozy as the 993. But I will never feel as "connected" to the 996.
In general, I'm glad I switched, but only because I sank another $10K into "fixing" the 996. If I was just looking for a nice, used Porsche, I'd have to go with the 993.
12-16-2007, 12:45 PM
#67
Team Owner
If there's some reason you can't sell a Porsche in the winter, this Midwesterner has never heard it. I picked up my 996 the day after Christmas last year. Course, it was probably a better deal for me than the seller.
12-16-2007, 01:03 PM
#68
Three Wheelin'
I guess I have a slightly different perspective.
- When there were nothing but 356's, the first 911's just looked to us like Space Alien Frogs. They lost the beautiful organic lines of the 356's. At least they were comfortable. But the general feeling was that the only Real Porsche engine had 4 cylinders.
- My European spec '69 911s probably remains my favorite car of all time. Light, nimble, handling that was challenging/interesting; great ergonomics. When the 74-76 911's came out, they looked like rolling Wh0r3 Houses. Gold wheels?! Plush interiors, A/C, electric windows, high prices? What happened to the simple, purposeful mission?
- I got a '96 993 to have one of the last "air cooled" Porsches (although they were more oil cooled). I was disappointed at the ergonomics. It seemed like the driver had been relatively ignored to make a VunderKar. It had also become so refined that was more just a car and had little of the visceral excitement and connection of the earlier 911s.
- The 996 seems retro to me. More simple lines, better ride & better ergonomics like the earlier 911s. My wife would rarely ride in the 993, but will ask that we take the 996 when we go places.
So, judgments about the cars depends on your frame of reference. The 993 & 996 are just different. I don't miss the 993. Ultimately, they're all air cooled. Find the one that feels right to you.
(btw, I am Thrilled to have my 996 share parts with other models. Parts should be less expensive and more available over time. Perfect!!)
- When there were nothing but 356's, the first 911's just looked to us like Space Alien Frogs. They lost the beautiful organic lines of the 356's. At least they were comfortable. But the general feeling was that the only Real Porsche engine had 4 cylinders.
- My European spec '69 911s probably remains my favorite car of all time. Light, nimble, handling that was challenging/interesting; great ergonomics. When the 74-76 911's came out, they looked like rolling Wh0r3 Houses. Gold wheels?! Plush interiors, A/C, electric windows, high prices? What happened to the simple, purposeful mission?
- I got a '96 993 to have one of the last "air cooled" Porsches (although they were more oil cooled). I was disappointed at the ergonomics. It seemed like the driver had been relatively ignored to make a VunderKar. It had also become so refined that was more just a car and had little of the visceral excitement and connection of the earlier 911s.
- The 996 seems retro to me. More simple lines, better ride & better ergonomics like the earlier 911s. My wife would rarely ride in the 993, but will ask that we take the 996 when we go places.
So, judgments about the cars depends on your frame of reference. The 993 & 996 are just different. I don't miss the 993. Ultimately, they're all air cooled. Find the one that feels right to you.
(btw, I am Thrilled to have my 996 share parts with other models. Parts should be less expensive and more available over time. Perfect!!)
06-25-2009, 06:25 PM
#70
Drifting
I had two 993's - loved them both - butmade the leap to a 996 for the creature comfort element. I like the slightly more capacious cockpit too and all the other stuff so eloquently outlined above. The 996 has just a little beet more git up and go albeit with less drama if that makes sense. Yes - the 993 is more 'raw' and visceral but in a refined sort of way compared to the earlier 911's and it even makes about the same power as the earliest 930. Also: big tip if you DIY: the 993 was a royal PITA to maintain. These cars were clearly produced with a Dealer-servicability factor. Not to sya day-to-day maintenance is not doable for the DIY-er, it's just PAIN compared to the earlier 911's. Having said that, my jury is still out however on the 996...
06-25-2009, 10:00 PM
#71
Instructor
I drove a '96 C2 for 9 years and traded it in for a 2002 C4S.
Once i got the C4S, I took it up to Watkins Glen for a through shake out.
Here are some of the diffences I have noticed.
The 993 is smaller on the inside, and with an arthritic hip (about to be replaced in August) it was getting too small for me. the 996 gives me about 3" more elbow room, and 4" more fore aft room. and the seat goes down further, allowing me to drive with my legs out. Head room is not a problem (I am 5'11").
More on the interiors, the center console on the 993 cannot be removed, and I was rubbing my leg on the console for 9 yrs. Although the 996 looks the same, in the 996 you can install the "GT3 Console Delete" about $125 suncoast Porsche, and now there is nothing in front of the shifter. No rubbing now! It really feels like my first P-car, a 72 911S.
Driving the C4S v 993 at watkins glen, there is no comparison. The C4S drives more like my 72 'S - the brakes are so far superior, they are not in the same league. I was going 10-15 mph faster at the end of the straights, and all my break points, learned from 9 yrs of driving the 993 on the same track, were 100 - 150 ft too soon. And for acceleration, unless you get the C4S over 5000 RPM you can never understand the car. It has far more punch than the 993. It really did remind me of the 72S in that only at >5k, it really took off.
As for suspension, the 996 stock is looser. More body roll at every speed. I am in the process of getting sways and PSS10s. That should fix that problem (I would suggest any one who is seriously thinking of serious track time, consult your suspension specialist).
And one final reason the 996 is better than the 993 - Secondary Air fault. I drove the 993 for 2 yrs with the engine light on due to plugging the secondary air passages, and it cost $1500 just to turn the CEL off.
I have had no regrets going to the C4S. it is so much a better car, there is no substitute.
Roy
these comments may be specific for the C4S, I did not even look at a 996 C2
Once i got the C4S, I took it up to Watkins Glen for a through shake out.
Here are some of the diffences I have noticed.
The 993 is smaller on the inside, and with an arthritic hip (about to be replaced in August) it was getting too small for me. the 996 gives me about 3" more elbow room, and 4" more fore aft room. and the seat goes down further, allowing me to drive with my legs out. Head room is not a problem (I am 5'11").
More on the interiors, the center console on the 993 cannot be removed, and I was rubbing my leg on the console for 9 yrs. Although the 996 looks the same, in the 996 you can install the "GT3 Console Delete" about $125 suncoast Porsche, and now there is nothing in front of the shifter. No rubbing now! It really feels like my first P-car, a 72 911S.
Driving the C4S v 993 at watkins glen, there is no comparison. The C4S drives more like my 72 'S - the brakes are so far superior, they are not in the same league. I was going 10-15 mph faster at the end of the straights, and all my break points, learned from 9 yrs of driving the 993 on the same track, were 100 - 150 ft too soon. And for acceleration, unless you get the C4S over 5000 RPM you can never understand the car. It has far more punch than the 993. It really did remind me of the 72S in that only at >5k, it really took off.
As for suspension, the 996 stock is looser. More body roll at every speed. I am in the process of getting sways and PSS10s. That should fix that problem (I would suggest any one who is seriously thinking of serious track time, consult your suspension specialist).
And one final reason the 996 is better than the 993 - Secondary Air fault. I drove the 993 for 2 yrs with the engine light on due to plugging the secondary air passages, and it cost $1500 just to turn the CEL off.
I have had no regrets going to the C4S. it is so much a better car, there is no substitute.
Roy
these comments may be specific for the C4S, I did not even look at a 996 C2
06-26-2009, 12:08 AM
#72
Three Wheelin'
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I love 993's too, but 996's are a pretty amazing value right now.
There's a guy at work stuck on getting a 993 but he doesn't want to pay over $30k.
A light bulb will go off pretty soon I think....
(edit -- just realized this is an oooold thread)
04-05-2020, 08:10 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Went from a 964 to a 997 to a 996. The 964 was slow and not worthy of daily driving. 997s was clearly the fastest. 996 (99) is far and away the best value and certainly worthy of daily driving.