evolvedaz

on the stock airbox...no seriously...you can.

I will have a stock vs K&N dyno on our dyno at Vivid.

LVDell

Gotta love these claims of 23 hp by air filter makers. There is claims of 23hp and there is TRUE gains of hp. An air filter will NOT net you 23hp. You can create all the dyno's you want but it just ain't true. Why do you think the powerkit costs ($16K) so damn much to get 26hp???

I don't understand why these air filter replacement companies don't just market them as sound enhancer's (which is what they are). But then again how would they sell them for $250+????

Ubermensch

This is a form of price fixing and is illegal. The free market decides the price of products not the manufacturer. I'll be happy to file a claim if what you stated is true.

Shawn

mundman

Probably ok to sell--just not advertise
Hey Dan Does it sound the same as the Fabspeed orange "wunderhose"?

Ubermensch

Its fine for VividRacing to state it and sell it, it's not fine for K&N to tell their retailers anything of the kind. It's a K&N issue, not Dan's issue.

LiveFromNY

All due respect, that is a very broad statement and probably incorrect.

There are instances where it is absolutely legal for companies to enforce a pricing structure. The FTC has consistently stated this.

From the FTC website:

Q: I own a small jewelry store and the manufacturer of TimeCo brand watches recently dropped me as a dealer. I’m sure it’s because my competitors complained that I sell below the suggested retail price. The explanation was the manufacturer’s policy: its products should not be sold below the suggested retail price, and dealers who do not comply are subject to termination. Is it legal for the manufacturer to dictate my prices?

A: The law allows a manufacturer to have a policy that its dealers should sell a product above a certain minimum price, and to terminate dealers that do not honor that policy. Manufacturers may choose to adopt this kind of policy because it encourages dealers to provide full customer service and prevents other dealers, who may not provide full service, from taking away customers and "free riding" on the services provided by other dealers. If TimeCo got you to agree to maintain the suggested retail price, it would be illegal. It also would be illegal if TimeCo agreed with your competitors to drop you as a dealer to help maintain a price to which they had agreed. However, a complaint from a competing retailer is not sufficient to prove such an agreement, because the manufacturer may have decided independently that its interests were better served by sticking with its policy.

LiveFromNY

And also, if you want a little light weekend reading, here's a nice article from Antitrust Magazine regarding the implementation of an effective Minimum Resale Price Policy:

Antitrust Magazine Summer 2003

Actually a pretty good read if you're into this kind of stuff.

Ubermensch

I agree that my statement was a broad generalization and it may not fit in all cases. However "If TimeCo got you to agree to maintain the suggested retail price, it would be illegal. It also would be illegal if TimeCo agreed with your competitors to drop you as a dealer to help maintain a price to which they had agreed." I won't derail this thread any further, but wanted to point out that if retailers don't stand up for themselves the customers are the one's getting shafted.

PS--I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, so keep that in mind when making your legal choices

evolvedaz

ON TOPIC PLEASE. You cannot advertise below jobber price. If someone calls in and you want to only make $5 then sure... but would you lawyers make $5 hour? Cause I wont

For any lawyers, if you want to make a ton of money in a ANTI TRUST suit, call me, I have a company i want to blast!!! They deserve it too.

evolvedaz

As far as your comments about intakes...

Go to www.injen.com, www.aempower.com, www.knfilters.com Look at the cars, look at the dyno sheets. Engineering, design, and testing. I have seen STI turbo cars get 25whp and i have see BMW M3 only get 7hp. They make power....

LiveFromNY

Of course, Vivid didn't say they were obligated to sell at a retail price, they said they could sell NO LOWER than $299.

The bottom line is that, in almost all cases, a manufacturer is allowed to set a minimum resale price as long as they clearly state and actively enforce this policy with their resellers.

Nothing we've seen or heard here would be actionable against K&N.

BTW, I'm not a lawyer either. But I am a member of the California Bar and I'm the CEO of a reasonably large ecommerce company. As such, I spend WAY TOO MUCH time with my friends at the FTC on these exact type of issues.

LiveFromNY

Ahhh... then we're talking about a MAP policy (minimum advertised price). Also legal, BTW. But at least dealers have the option to sell at any price they deem reasonable.

But I agree, back on topic. Can't wait to see an independent dyno. I want one just for the sound, any bump in HP will just be a bonus.

10 GT3

There are actually several dealers online with the K&N kit advertised for under $299. That is the retail price. The manufacturer can suggest they sell at list, but can't force it. After all we live in a free enterprise system. If the manufacturer doesn't agree with the sales tactics of their resellers, they can hold back product.

You don't always get gains on the dyno from an intake. The JWT intake on my G35 coupe actually made 2 rwhp less than the stock airbox on the dyno although they swear it has made 7 more HP. That was dynoed on the same day on the same dyno with the JWT intake dynoed first, when it was cooler.

evolvedaz

The Goods have arrived and shipped!

dallasboats

Dan, do you have anymore kits? Does that price include shipping?