BuddyK

Hello!

I would like to hear your advice - I am learning to drive my 1999 C4.

OK - I'll tell you a little bit about my car and where I am at. I know enough to know that I don't know - so maybe you guys can help me out.

I bought my beautiful 1999 C4 in October 2005. It has high mileage, but it is in great shape. I purchased the car in Vancouver and drove it home 1700 Km's West to Saskatchewan (no Porsche dealers here BTW). The ride home was so good - but that's a story for another time maybe.

I decided to keep the PSM on (default), just so I could get used to the car. I figured that it would keep me from hitting the ditch etc - as you probably know, the temptation is always there, (in every gear!), to hear that good sound at around 4200 RPM+ If I keep the car at 4200 RPM, I am always ready for maximum accelleration it seems, and I do like that sound and feeling!

OK, so I am getting used to the car on lots of drives, and first of all I can't believe the performance. This car is the most powerful and responsive car I have ever driven. So I keep the PSM "on" almost all of the time. In a straight line I am a champ of course, and that's enough to keep me entertained, but guess what - winter comes, and I am too busy to arrange to get winter tires for my car. Next year I'll be looking to get a separate set of wheels and good winter tires. It can get to -40 degrees here - probably I won't drive when it's that cold out, but I think I'll drive the car through winter next year 95% of the time. I really like winter driving. I have a 1991 BMW 5 series, and it's loads of fun in winter, and I love fishtailing - drifting all the way down the block for the last 500m to my house - in winter, when I go to work, or come home from work, I always have the car (BMW) sideways at fairly low speeds - steering with the throttle - it's just like the "Asteroids" video game, and to me this is the essence of driving - hanging out on the edge and thrusting about. Lots of opportunity in the prairies in winter to do "drifting" (I think it's the same thing).

OK - so the point is that I was too busy to get winter tires for my C4, and I only drove on a few occasions during the winter when there was no snow. The tires are useless in winter - so I couldn't really get used to the car. I have been patient. The snow is almost totally gone now, and so I have been driving my C4. Temperatures are around 0 degrees C (32 F). I am thinking that my tires are still not really ideal for the cold temperatures, so I am still driving conservatively on the corners (for the most part).

What I want to talk about and get advice on is coming now:

On the occasions where I do take a corner agressively, I can feel the PSM take effect and it throws my balance all off, and it holds me back! I'm not sure, but I think I hate the PSM! I realize the PSM will save me on a hard corner, but I don't like it much. The car is taking a strange line around the corner, and it all happens so fast, I can't make the car do what I want it to do yet with the PSM. I experienced this problem with "stability management" when I test drove a BMW X5 in a summerfallow field (wheat field dirt), trying to do donuts, and finding that the stability management wouldn't let me break the tail free!

I am used to driving my Kubelwagon - (VW Thing), which has the motor in the rear, and so I do have a good feel for how a rear engine car will take the corners. My problem is with the PSM - I can't enjoy my C4 as much with this PSM.

Now that spring is here, I am looking at going to a large wet parking lot, and seeing if PSM is going to allow me to drive faster through a simple course, or whether I'll be faster with the PSM "OFF".

OK - so tonight, I ran a litle errand, and I turned off the PSM! Yeah! That's what I want. So I pull out of the parking lot onto the road in 1st gear and throw my tail out and I get that nice S-shape track I am looking for, but after I get into second gear I chicken out and put the PSM back on and just think about the situation. Without the PSM, the car feels a lot better to me. I can predict what will happen next and drive the care. With the PSM, I feel like my body is thrown around in the seat unexpectedly, and I try to make a steering correction and I don't finish my corner the way I want - It's kind of jerky instead of the nice side slip I am looking for. I want to shut that darn PSM off and "use the force" - should I? Remember - I don't want my car wrapped around a pole!

Here I am posting this message.

Questions:

1. PSM might be good for utility driving - kind of a "protection" system computer to keep me safe, but do you guys agree that PSM is not fun?

2. Do you wish PSM was never invented? Or is it actually good? I mean, maybe when I am having fun fishtailing, I am not actually going to win the race - maybe the car is faster through a twisty course with PSM on? Maybe you guys know? I want to get some cones and legally rent a parking lot or something and do some time trials to find out myself, but maybe you guys know.

3. This C4 sticks to the road so well, that I find myself having to go so much faster to get to the hairy edge of things.. This could be good or bad - I'm not sure. Probably it's good, but in some ways, I think I might be able to have more fun in the BMW 5 series because it's so easy to kick out the tail and drift down the street at 35kmh in the snow. The Porsche sticks to the road so well, at least with the PSM, I can't get on the hairy edge.


I know that a little more big toe will put me into some good scary fun, but I wanted to check from you guys.

I want to learn some good shifting technique - I don't know how to heel and toe, and it seems like it will be hard to get the revs right in a downshift - it all happens so fast. Maybe I shift too fast and that's why I have a hard time thinking about doing any heel-toe technniques to adjust the revs in between. I'll learn, but if you guys know any good books or something, I'd really appreciate it.

Also I want to know what you think I should do - should I turn off the PSM and just learn to drive without it. I don't want to wreck my car just yet, so I have to admit, I am being a little conservative right now.


I don't know if I said a whole lot - I hope you get the idea of where I am at. I want some good advice about how to learn to drive my car. My tires are probably not perfect right now, so maybe it's a good time to burn them up and learn, and then order some new summer tires.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and help me out!

man_of_ice

First off, PSM is a fantastic thing. I just attended the Porsche World Roadshow Winter (pictures will be posted soon), where we drove various 997 C4S, Caymans and Boxters on a frozen lake.

We were guided to turn on/off the PSM system, and that was a huge "AHA" experience.

I would never ever drive my p-car without the system off anymore. Its just a life saver system with enough slack to allow for some fun driving.


With that said - if you want to throw around your p-car without PSM, then turn it off.

If you hit a lightpole and/or end up in a ditch, then you know why. Not much more I can say. Its your car, and if you dont like PSM then turn it off *shrugs*

Rob in WA

I also have a 3.4l C4 (cab though) and drive almost exclusively w/PSM on. PSM is quite a bit different then BMWs system. It allows for a substantial amount of slip before intervening, 6%, which is where most high performance tires begin to completely break loose. I can drift through corners just fine w/out PSM intervening. If it comes on you're not being smooth. It "learns" the driver, so the more aggressive you are w/it the more leeway it will give you, but it does take awhile for it to learn. I suggest you keep it on and concentrate on being smooth. Once you get to the point where you can throttle steer w/out it intervening, then try turning it off just to play.

HERE'S a good article on heel-toeing.

yetis

1) Whether you turn it on or off, you can never fully turn PSM off in a C4. Unless you are a track
star, I cannot see a reason to turn it off. On city streets, where there in no flagger at the top of a
hill or around a blind corner, its foolish to turn it off. But like I said, even if you turn it off, it will
kick in, at the most extreme situations.

2) If you rent out the parking lot and some cones, make sure you tell your friends. You might
actually get a high turn out, it's called AUTOCROSS!! Most Porsche clubs have auto cross
events and they are a great way to learn the limits of your car.

3) Is this a question or a statement? Either way yes, I agree. If you add sticky tires and
aftermarket suspension, its EVEN BETTER!! Next, it will be GT3Seats and a 5 point harness, to
hold you around the turn! Though I should say, keep it on the track.

Finally, shifting is critical in keeping the car under control. Uneven trottle and uneven jerky
shifting, can cause your car to become unsettled. A C4 will mask these issues to some degree and
so will PSM (a bit). However, as the speed increase (hopefully on a track), it will become more
citical.

Palting

Unless there is something wrong with your car, blame the temperatures and your tires for the aggressive PSM intrusion you are sensing. Yes, when PSM intrudes, it's like the car dropped an anchor, if only for a few seconds. Unfortunately, since you are on summer tires, tires that lose a significant amount of their grip below 44 dgrees, these tires will slip relatively easily and cause PSM to intrude. Summer tires REALY suck in the cold when pushed, especially if "not perfect right now".
So, first off, either wait for warmer weather and get good tires or get winter tires, so you can truly appreciate and learn about the car's performance.

As far as the "hairy edge" not a good thing to be exploring on public roads. Join your local PCA club, and get on an autocross course. Thats's the safe place to explore that "hairy edge". Turn PSM off, go around those cones as fast as you dare to go. Maybe go around more than once and do a 360! If you exceed your limits, no biggie, you'll just collect some cones, and you may even get a standing ovation from the crowd.

For more fun, go to a DE sponsored by the local Porsche club. You'll learn proper techniques of driving fast on a racetrack, including heel-toe, with an instructor in the passenger seat. You don't really want to exceed your limits here, because unlike autocross, you don't collect cones but can collect armcos and tire barriers. Fair warning, This is a VERY addicting activity. Once you get hooked and have several DE weekends under your belt, you'll laugh at those who explore the limits in public roads. You'll also find out that if the car is driven well, PSM will not intrude. Several experts I know will attest that they can achieve a faster lap time with PSM on but not intruding. Now, me OTOH, I turn PSM off at the track, and only at the track. I like to do silly things, like 4 wheel drifts or have rear hang out. Is it faster? Probably not, but it's a heck of a lot more fun .

Congratulations on your car! I suggest you learn to drive the car as-is before you start changing suspension and what-not. That way, you'll get an excellent understanding of the car, develop better drivng technique rather than "cheating" with mods. The limit of the C4 is very high even in basic form.

Carrera Mike

Here is a very good video that shows you that you drive faster and can take corners faster with the PSM on! They also teach the PDE with PSM on. For other top end sports car, the stability management is more for safety than a enhancement so it becomes a disadvantage. But for Porsche, its the best and an actual advantage over all other top end sports cars.

http://www.coochas.com/porsche/Resou...240x180ch3.wmv

http://www.coochas.com/porsche/Resou...240x180ch4.wmv

http://www.coochas.com/porsche/Resou...TTvs996C4S.wmv

http://www.coochas.com/porsche/Resources/996.5PSM.mov

BuddyK

Thanks for all the advice - exactly what I needed to know!

I'll be patient and wait for higher temperatures, and invest in more rubber.

I think I want to spin out in a safe parking lot, just so I can see what it takes. With PSM off, I think that will be easy. With PSM on - I don't know yet.

I'll have fun learning, the limits of this car are way higher than anything I have ever driven, and maybe I'll look for an autocross club here - for sure I want to have some room to make mistakes without crashing into trees. We have many roads with no cars on them, but yeah, a parking lot after a rain will be what I am looking for. I have to get a better feel for the car and I'll take my time at it. My friend has an S2000, and he is a very good driver, so maybe he can give me some pointers. I'm not a bad driver, but there is a little learning curve here for sure. I'd love to be able to drive like those Japanese guys in the video - I think they'd like driving in Saskatchewan in winter.

You guys are awesome - thanks for the replies on this. I'll let you know how it goes! I love this car! Still hard to believe it's mine!

BTW - those video's are excellent - all of them. That Top Gear show is the best driving show I have ever seen! I could watch that show all day! Those Brits are well spoken, and they sure know how to have fun eh? How come the car shows here aren't like that?

M Fig

I forgot how much I like Top Gear...I wish it was still on...

Thanks for the links.

mark