John: You're right, sorry, I got that backwards. I'm still learning all this stuff myself. I do know that whatever I did seemed to do the trick since I jumped from 6th to 2nd in my class at the last event . Lifting transfers the weight TO the front wheels theyby giving them MORE traction so they will have a greater ability to grab again.

The string analogy is interesting. But how does it work when you want to rotate the car (i.e. pitch-and-catch). As I understand it the procedure is Gas -> Turn -> Lift -> Gas. So there are occasions where you want turn with the throttle on (not all the way mind you, but on none-the-less).

I do enjoy autocrossing and I'm hoping to do my first DE in June at California Speedway. Don't know if it's going to spoil me or not though. I'll have to wait and see.

/net

 

Oops, my fault. <img border="0" alt="[oops]" title="" src="graemlins/oops.gif" /> I meant understeer just goes straight.

I've found DE to be somwhat easier that auto cross. DE is done at a much higher speed, but you have more time to plan and execute the manuevers. Autocross, although slower, the turns are so abrupt and come so quick you have to perform instinctively, almost without thinking. You also have to be planning two turns ahead while executing the current turn. I'm sure seat time in each event has a lot to do with it, since I've done waaaay more DE than autocross.

Not to put down PDE, MJones, but I don't know if there is anything more I can gain from it other than more seat time. The fundamentals, such as the skid pad, slalom, etc, are fine, but my specific problem now is to be able to execute the moves. The PDE is otherwise an excellent if not expensive way to learn about the capabilities of the car.

 

the String from the wheel to the toe example for acceleration ---&gt; by Vic Elford in "Porsche High-performance driving hand book"... old but great book

 

Twice a year our local PCA hosts a Performance Driving School. I attended my first one two weeks ago (which is why I'm still beating myself up for forgetting which way the weight transfers when you lift <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" /> ). It was very eudcational and gives you a lot of what PDE does (slalom, skid pad, threshold breaking, etc) for a fraction of the cost. I just assumed other local clubs had the same program, is that not the case?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Autocross, although slower, the turns are so abrupt and come so quick you have to perform instinctively, almost without thinking.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">This is exactly what I am hoping to get from AX and take to the track. I'll have much less to think about when I'm out there if I've already learned how to instinctively correct for understeer, rotate the car, be smooth, etc.

/net

 

Needles to say, BE SMOOTH is the best advice you can take. I've driven professionally in formula cars, Toyota Atlantics, French Formula 3 and French Formula Renault. Weight transfer understanding is extremely important. If its understeering transfering weight to the front tires will give you more traction. Keep in mind that many manufacturers dial in understeer into their suspensions, as they believe its "safer" for the road...BE SMOOTH...once the weight is transferred the front has more grip, SQUEEZE the throttle...BE SMOOTH...the idea is to keep the car well balanced...did I mention BE SMOOTH...

 

In DE and Auto cross the principals of driving are exactly the same. Braking Turn in, Etc and the car responses the same in DE's, you've just not met the limits.

The Friction Circle never changes.

 

Palting - Autox is tons of fun. I've done it a few times now and plan to do more. Suggestions I've heard from very experienced autox'ers is that you shouldn't use oversteer to turn, just go in more slowly and accelerate out early (awd is very handy!).