Kaz

Hi, I'm over from the 928 board and am considering a move to a stock 996. What was the first year of the 996 and are there any issues to be aware of as the car gets up in mileage? Any issues to be aware of on low mileage cars and lastly, were there any factory recalls or warranty issues?

Thanks


K

996FLT6

Common things for the early '99 or pre-99 models were oil leak seals needed to be replaced, airbag lite turned on til it got fixed, coolant level would flash(needed a new coolant reservoir-recall item i remember), center console hinge would break(2-3 times before it finally held up. Other things I've heard is which hasnt happened to me as of yet check engine lite came on(something to deal with gas cap) and some real bad ones like an engine replacement due to coolant/oil mixing but that occurs during the first 5k miles. All problems were remedied under warranty and to the best of my knowledge happen early so if your looking for 99 models should all be fixed/remedied. My car has 21k now and its all gone well so far. Regards. Mike

DoubleNutz

Kaz my 2002 996 finally hit the states today- Its "comin' home to papa"!

I am gonna get lotsa of flack for saying the following but hey... I have driven both 911 and 928 and have no biases. The 2002 996 is probably the finest hybrid of the 911 and 928 in a production Porsche. The 2002 is finally equal to the 928 in normally aspirated horsepower and torque and has the weight of a pre-993/911. It has lots of 928 interior and comfort cues too and less of the typical spartan 911 interior. Additionally, the 2002 interior is less "shall we say"...Boxster-ish.

What can I say? If you're thinking about it- go for it! You won't regret it. However, if you plan to get into a any 911 less than a 996 from a 928, IMHO you will first be somewhat disappointed. With the exception of the 911 Turbo, the first time you put your foot into a pre-996/911 you will immediately notice the lack of torque and power (yes, it's a dramatic difference). On the other hand, the 911's handling characteristics are immediately felt, and honestly it's a blast to drive (I prefer the C2's for this reason). The 928 handling is hard to mess up and is very forgiving, the 911...NOOOT! You don't have the weissach axle of the 928 to bail you out anymore when you let off that throttle in an overzealous highspeed turn, you can get your self into the a bit of spin trouble in the 911 unless you are driving a 993 or later model where the 928's weissach axel can be found. Unless of course you are driving a C4 and then all the fun is substituted for electronics and the all wheel drive the 928 never had. Another thing I noticed about the 993 is that like my 928 it is pretty maintenance free and I understand that Porsche has further refined on the maintence free concept with the 996. However, prices for parts if and when you need to do maintenance- well, get ready to take a bath. Take air filters for example the baztards are about 25 bucks, pollen air filters (and you need two 45.00 each and the fuel filter (same one from the 928) 35.00! So just in filters you are in over 100 coins and in the 911 you need to change the air filter frequently.

After driving both types of cars there are things I like about both and habits of both I did not like. The 2002 996 has everything in it I liked about the 928 and the 911 combined- driveability habits, power/torque, comfort, weight, etc.

Oooookay, 928 Haters ...FIRE AWAY!

Kaz

Thanks Pat and Mike. I've had my 928 S4 a little over two years and with the few mods I've made to it, it is truly a lovely car but I think it's time for me to move on. I never really considered a 996 until I parked next to one and on returning to my car I noticed that I couldn't see mine sitting behind the 996 because all the angles were the same!! Anyway, I briefly drove a 996 that happened to be at the shop and it's the first "newer" Porsche I've driven that made my 928 feel old. I didn't drive it enough however to get much more of an impression of it. So I'll be taking care of that in the coming weeks. In anycase I won't be stepping into a 2002 996 much as I'd love to, but more than likely will go for the first year model if I can find a suitable candidate at the right price.

Speaking of handling, a few weeks ago I got to drive a 2001 Lamborghini Diablo 6.0 VT. I didn't come close to pushing this cars limits but I drove it hard enough to challenge mine while ensuring I wouldn't inadvertantly end up buying anything I happened to damage. Anyway, let me just say there won't be any 993's or 6's that'll be scaring the bejesus out of me. (laugh)

As far as 928 power goes, I have been able to pull every 996's I've tangled with on the freeway to date. Straight line of course as I've never played with one in the twisties. I'm going to assume these few unfortunate 996's that had the misfortune of watching me pull away were stock. That said, I think knowing the 928 the way I do, or my 928 the way I do, I could probably manage to stay ahead if I were to come across an S4 or GT while driving a 996.

Lastly, one of my favorite cars of all time is a 911 Turbo but I'm just not there yet. I'm tall so I've never really fit into the older 911's that well though I've found them quite fun to drive when I've gotten the occasion.

Anyway, if there's anything else you can think of send it my way. What are the early 996's going for? Are the prices really that depressed on them?

K

DoubleNutz

Yea, as far as normally aspirated Porsche's go, whether most 911 drivers want to admit it or not, the 928 has been the straight line king for a long time. However, I believe the 2002 996 finally knocks it off top with more horsepower, less weight and superior handling at high speed.

Yes, you are correct when you put them side by the side the lines are almost amazingly identical between the 996 and the 928.

There was an article in 911 Porsche World Magazine several months ago that compared the an 1989 928S4 and the 2001 996 coupe and the 928 came out either ahead or equal to the 2001 996 except in the twisties however the 928 was not far behind. If I recall the acticle said the 928 remained close behind the 2001 996 and always close in its rear view mirror in the twisties. Not bad for a 12 year old Porsche.

eclou

What is the HP, weight, and rear end ratio of a 928s4 anyway? I just returned from a PCA DE at TWS and found that my modded 97 M3(232rhwp, 3.23 rear end) could pull pretty well on an S4 driven by a very aggressive Swede. We could enter the main straight at 90 and I would just hit 120-125 mph at the end while putting some distance (4-6 car lengths) on the S4.

Meanwhile my wife in a 996 cab tip could enter the back straight at about 70mph but hit 115 midway through the straight with ease. I think her cab has a 3.68 rear end ratio but it just seems the 996 is much faster than a 928S4.

On the flip side while chasing a stock C5 on the back straight, he could put about 3-4 car lengths on me under WOT.

Eugene

ben in lj

"There was an article in 911 Porsche World Magazine several months ago that compared the an 1989 928S4 and the 2001 996 coupe and the 928 came out either ahead or equal to the 2001 996 except in the twisties however the 928 was not far behind. If I recall the acticle said the 928 remained close behind the 2001 996 and always close in its rear view mirror in the twisties. Not bad for a 12 year old Porsche."

The 928 was the first Porsche I ever drove. The sound of that 8 cyl is intoxicating. That said, a 996 would kick that porky butt all over the place in a "sustained" match wherein that weight would really start to take it's toll on tires and brakes. Besides, you'd first have to find a used 928 that would run for more than a couple miles before breaking down :-) My buddy had one in 1983 that was only a couple years old and back THEN, it seemed to break every couple weeks. It was always $500+ (in THEN dollars). This is why you can't give away a 928 today. It takes a much wealthier individual to own a 928 than a 996 :-)

Kaz

Well I'm not trying to stir up any heated debates here, I'm just posting my own experiences when going up against 996's on the street and since it hasn't happened in a while it wouldn't be a 2002 model. The street is not the track and an entirely different environment where you're more likely to get an inexperienced driver who for all I know doesn't realize he's not putting his foot to the floor. It happens in drag racing all the time, drivers think they've got it floored but instinct makes them lift. For that matter the Swede you were racing might've thought he had the hammer down but didn't...who knows...928's come into their own from 90 or 100mph up so he shouldn't have had a problem staying with you.

The final rear end ration on an S4 is tall, something like 2:83 on my 88S4, I believe the 89 models are a bit shorter but that's for accelerations sake from a deadstop. I have no idea why the Swede couldn't do anything against you Eugene but I've never had problems dealing with M3's (I don't mess with the latest M3's) while on the run. From a standing start I'm pretty powerless though due to weight. Once again, none of my experiences are track experiences and we all know that's quite different from the comparetively controlled environment of the track.

Also, I would mention that my best results come from me being at or near empty fuel wise. When I'm topped up or even have a passenger the ballgame changes dramatically. Crank hp on a stock 928 is around 320 with rwhp being anywhere from 269 to 275 on the random dyno sheets I've seen. My car has never been dynoed. The only mod my car has is a RMB, that on a good day might be good for 5 hp more.

K

DoubleNutz

Hmmmm, I have seen some impressive numbers in the pre 2001-M3 but my 85S has destroyed its share of them on the track and I am certain they are no match for any year S4 driven by a an experienced 928 driver or not.
I could put as much as two or three car lengths on most pre 2001-M3's with little effort in my 85S (I have got lots of video tape to prove it). The 87-M3 always seemed a bit more challenging though. In fact, Mark Kibort's 81' 928 is the M3 crusher and that is documented on video in many places. I think the guy shows up at BMW CCA events just to destroy M3's intentionally in his 1981 928!

Granted driver skill and hp:wgt play a big part in this. However, I was never more impressed with a 928 ability to perform than when watching PCA's Kim Crumb take a "bone stock" absolutely no mods 1980 928 and chase down, embarrass, and maraud every Porsche and BMW on the track up through a 993 Turbo in the 1999 Porsche RainBonnet here in Portland, Oregon. VERY IMPRESSIVE performance, brakes, and handling. It put final closure to the debate and slap downs on the 928.

A fully loaded Porsche 928S4 weights in at about 3700 lbs with the GTS approaching 3900.
The 928 GT's and very lite (fully loaded 3100 lb.) and very rare 1988 928 Club Sport
will be hard to match in any Porsche other than a modified (however slight) up to the 993 Turbo and 996 which handle very well and can be a handful for even a very experienced 928 driver. In fact, it would take some real skill over time. However, as for durability, in a track environment the 928 will again shock you. The 928 is not a Corvette it is a Porsche and it is made very well and to very high standards. Your not exactly going to see it pulled over on the back twisties with the hood up and churning steam or the brakes "smokin grass" as you would most Vettes after several good hard laps. The four piston brake calipers appeared on the 928S first in the 1986.5 and the big brake set up appeared on the 928 (GTS years) as standard equipment and personally under hard driving over time I have never had problems with fade. My 86 993 weights almost as much as my 928 did and has the same brakes! So when it comes to weight only the 996 went on a diet and as far as post 95MY's and as for the M3 it was a pig too- prior to 2001.

Don't get me wrong I think all these Porsches are great performers and like I said earlier I have no biases becuase I admire all of them and have driven or tracked with a each of them or been opposite each of them in the other car. I am by no means a great or very skilled driver- just a rank amatuer, but even with little or no skill this has been my personal observations.

996FLT6

After reading this post I already learn something new and that is the 996 offers a perfect blend/hybrid of 928 especially the rear. I mean the car has lines of a 911 the rear similar to the 928 and the front of a boxster(pre 02 models) and it blends well. Regards. Mike

DoubleNutz

HUH??? NO way there is definately something wrong with that S4! The S4 bone stock puts about 270RWHP to the ground at practically the same weight as a 87 M3.

With a few simple mods (piggy back computer, and X-over exhaust) it could easily and inexpensively be put over 300rwhp. Louis Ott's N.A. 91 928GT is getting close to 340 rear wheel ponies with a few more mods. but, folks like Don hanson and others with bored and stroked mods in their S4's are way over 400rwhp and on a diet.

Kaz

One of the factors in my search for a suitable replacement has been braking power. I had a 500E that was a bullet but the brakes left something to be desired where confidence was concerned. They definately hauled the car down but they didn't feel like they'd do it over and over again like my 88S4 with the Big Red upgrade. A call to REnntech gave me a figure of 4 grand to upgrade for comparibe braking power.

Anyway with whatever car I go with I want to see the kind of braking power I have now moreso that HP. Good driving can make up for a little lack of HP. The difference between a 996 and 928 isn't that much. When I said I can pull a 996, I didn't mean I was blowing the doors off, it was more like a steady pull away at about a 2 to 3 mph difference if that. I would think a few mods could take care of that.

On another note, Marcus has his supercharged 928 up and running and in three impromptu races of less than a 8th of a mile against a 93 GTS with the same tranny and gear ratio, the supercharged 928 opened up 2 car lengths repeatedly....after hooking up of course.

Anyway, we can go on and on, but horsepower costs money as we all know. I just want a good replacement that doesn't make me feel like I took a step down.

K

ben in lj

Didn't know we were talking about drag racing (one of the 996's weakest points).

Kaz

oh sorry Ben we weren't. It was just a mention that's all on the way the Supercharged 928 and GTS went since they were out in front of German Auto Art. I've never dragged my 928 against any of the cars mentioned. Only runs from speed or up in the Canyons. Even though Porsche's aren't meant for drag racing it's not like they're slow in that dept.

K

eclou

The E30 M3 (88-91) weighed about 28-2900 lbs dry with about 170 rwhp. 1/4 mile times were about 15.0 sec.
The E36 M3 (95-99) weighed 30-3200 lbs with about 200-220 rwhp. 1/4 mile times about 14.0 sec.
The E46 M3 (2001-on) weigh about 34-3500 lbs with 270 rwhp. 1/4 mile times about 13.3 sec.
These are pretty consistent figures from various magazine articles.

If the 928s4 weighs 37-3800 lbs and has a 2.xx rear end I am not surprised that my M3 pulled on it. Remember my modded car is approaching 280 crank hp while weighing right at 2900-3000 lbs. The C5 had trouble pulling on my car. I would not be surprised if on a 0-150 mph sprint the 928 passed my M3 after about 120 and then disappeared in the horizon.

Mind you I am not bashing the 928 by any means, just relaying what I experienced. The C5 and the 928 were driven by very aggressive drivers, though I cannot guarantee what was going through their minds.

I am still envisioning a nice 6spd GTS in my garage.

Eugene