987 vs. 996 handling
06-18-2005, 11:20 PM
#46
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Here exactly what he posted:
My '00 Boxster S had the following weight distributions with a full tank and no occupants...
*Top down, with the spare = 46.5/53.5
*Top down, spare removed = 45.8/54.2
//
*Top up, with the spare = 46.6/53.4
My spare weighed 30 lbs.
I dont think Porsche weights its car with a spare so I think it is 46/54.
My '00 Boxster S had the following weight distributions with a full tank and no occupants...
*Top down, with the spare = 46.5/53.5
*Top down, spare removed = 45.8/54.2
//
*Top up, with the spare = 46.6/53.4
My spare weighed 30 lbs.
I dont think Porsche weights its car with a spare so I think it is 46/54.
06-18-2005, 11:34 PM
#48
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My owners manual say 44lbs with spare (jack/tools also). Im not trying to get under your skin. But I would think Porsche doesn't weigh the car with spare/ Jack/tools. (so the road and track ratios COULD be off). My point stays intact, Porsche spec are more accurate across the board.
06-19-2005, 06:10 AM
#49
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That the weight distribution of the 911 is closer to that of high performance mid-engine designs than that of the Boxster.
06-19-2005, 10:06 AM
#50
Originally Posted by autobahnNY
My owners manual say 44lbs with spare (jack/tools also). Im not trying to get under your skin. But I would think Porsche doesn't weigh the car with spare/ Jack/tools. (so the road and track ratios COULD be off). My point stays intact, Porsche spec are more accurate across the board.
The Road and Track weights were published with and without a 190lb driver, and the 987S curb weight of 3130lbs represents 165 lbs of fuel and options over Porsche's published curb weight of 2965lbs. The 987 does not offer a spare tire.
Basically, the point of my posting this data is that there seems to be a general perception that the optimal weight distribution for a sports car is 50/50. In actuality, a rear weight bias is prefered in high-performance cars, as demonstrated by each of the cars we're discussing here, and ~42/58 seems to be a favored ratio. The front engined Dodge Viper and Honda S2000 each manage to achieve a rear bias! 49/51 for the Viper and 48/52 for the Honda. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that if Dodge could move more weight from the front axle to the rear, they would do it! As for the "optimal" 50/50, the BMW Z4 is the only car in the R&T "Best All-Around Sports Car" test with 50/50.
I think one factor producing the Boxster's 47/53 (or 46/54 if you prefer), is that of it's smaller engines. Most certainly, a Boxster engineered with a 3.6L engine and transaxle and the accompanying chassis strengthening, the ratio's would become more rear biased, perhaps approaching that of these other cars. And of course, turbocharging, with the turbos, intercoolers, piping, and further transaxle and chassis strengthening would increase the rear bias even further (as it does in the case of the 911 GT2 vs GT3, where the GT2 engine/components weigh 130lbs more than GT3).
The technical data from this test is available for download in PDF format. It's interesting to see such different car's specs and performance side by side.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=1
BTW, you would be pleased to know that the majority of the article's writers chose the 987S as their objective winner! A couple of them chose the 997, one even chose the Viper. The 997S won the subjective ratings overall when price was not a factor.
06-19-2005, 05:08 PM
#51
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If the spare/jack/tools are standard equipment, the car's curb weight should inlcude them.
The Road and Track weights were published with and without a 190lb driver, and the 987S curb weight of 3130lbs represents 165 lbs of fuel and options over Porsche's published curb weight of 2965lbs. The 987 does not offer a spare tire.
Basically, the point of my posting this data is that there seems to be a general perception that the optimal weight distribution for a sports car is 50/50. In actuality, a rear weight bias is prefered in high-performance cars, as demonstrated by each of the cars we're discussing here, and ~42/58 seems to be a favored ratio. The front engined Dodge Viper and Honda S2000 each manage to achieve a rear bias! 49/51 for the Viper and 48/52 for the Honda. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that if Dodge could move more weight from the front axle to the rear, they would do it! As for the "optimal" 50/50, the BMW Z4 is the only car in the R&T "Best All-Around Sports Car" test with 50/50.
I think one factor producing the Boxster's 47/53 (or 46/54 if you prefer), is that of it's smaller engines. Most certainly, a Boxster engineered with a 3.6L engine and transaxle and the accompanying chassis strengthening, the ratio's would become more rear biased, perhaps approaching that of these other cars. And of course, turbocharging, with the turbos, intercoolers, piping, and further transaxle and chassis strengthening would increase the rear bias even further (as it does in the case of the 911 GT2 vs GT3, where the GT2 engine/components weigh 130lbs more than GT3).
The technical data from this test is available for download in PDF format. It's interesting to see such different car's specs and performance side by side.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article...9&page_number=1
BTW, you would be pleased to know that the majority of the article's writers chose the 987S as their objective winner! A couple of them chose the 997, one even chose the Viper. The 997S won the subjective ratings overall when price was not a factor.
The Road and Track weights were published with and without a 190lb driver, and the 987S curb weight of 3130lbs represents 165 lbs of fuel and options over Porsche's published curb weight of 2965lbs. The 987 does not offer a spare tire.
Basically, the point of my posting this data is that there seems to be a general perception that the optimal weight distribution for a sports car is 50/50. In actuality, a rear weight bias is prefered in high-performance cars, as demonstrated by each of the cars we're discussing here, and ~42/58 seems to be a favored ratio. The front engined Dodge Viper and Honda S2000 each manage to achieve a rear bias! 49/51 for the Viper and 48/52 for the Honda. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that if Dodge could move more weight from the front axle to the rear, they would do it! As for the "optimal" 50/50, the BMW Z4 is the only car in the R&T "Best All-Around Sports Car" test with 50/50.
I think one factor producing the Boxster's 47/53 (or 46/54 if you prefer), is that of it's smaller engines. Most certainly, a Boxster engineered with a 3.6L engine and transaxle and the accompanying chassis strengthening, the ratio's would become more rear biased, perhaps approaching that of these other cars. And of course, turbocharging, with the turbos, intercoolers, piping, and further transaxle and chassis strengthening would increase the rear bias even further (as it does in the case of the 911 GT2 vs GT3, where the GT2 engine/components weigh 130lbs more than GT3).
The technical data from this test is available for download in PDF format. It's interesting to see such different car's specs and performance side by side.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article...9&page_number=1
BTW, you would be pleased to know that the majority of the article's writers chose the 987S as their objective winner! A couple of them chose the 997, one even chose the Viper. The 997S won the subjective ratings overall when price was not a factor.
06-19-2005, 06:11 PM
#52
Originally Posted by autobahnNY
Ok, I knew all this was coming. That's fine and dandy. My point WASN'T what was the preferred platform (mid or rear). My point was the actual ratio. Obviously your biasness is coming out. Not once was I arguing about which is preferred or better.
