What's faster on the track C4 or C2
03-18-2005, 02:34 PM
#62
Originally Posted by Rob in WA
I'm curious as to how the suspension, brakes, and AWD, make up for almost 300 lbs in extra weight.
Me too. Of course, when you take into account the various crap I have added to my car (xm, bluetooth hand free kit, etc . . ) and my ever expanding waistline, the difference may end up being pretty negligible.
03-18-2005, 02:44 PM
#65
Pro
Show me a back to back between a C4s and a sport-suspended C2 (factory option, so it's apples to apples, imo) with a professional driver. Same track, same day, and not sponsored by Porsche. From a performance perspective, the performance *enhancing* bits are the big brakes and (in some scenarios) the AWD. Throw the big brakes on a sport suspended C4 and you'd have a higher performing car than the C4s (IMO).
Don't you think Porsche would want you to believe the car you're paying more for is higher performance? Don't tell me the C4s is actually less expensive than a C2. That's only for the dash-strokers that have to have fancy interiors
The C4s is a very strong performing package out of the box. It's a very capable and safe car. That said, its primary design goal was not performance, it was built to ammortize the wide body just like Porsche has done with the last several incarnations of the 911.
I thought this thread was about the C2 and C4?
Don't you think Porsche would want you to believe the car you're paying more for is higher performance? Don't tell me the C4s is actually less expensive than a C2. That's only for the dash-strokers that have to have fancy interiors
The C4s is a very strong performing package out of the box. It's a very capable and safe car. That said, its primary design goal was not performance, it was built to ammortize the wide body just like Porsche has done with the last several incarnations of the 911.
I thought this thread was about the C2 and C4?
03-18-2005, 03:04 PM
#67
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Rob in WA
What does the C4S do the 'ring in? I can't find it.
I'm curious as to how the suspension, brakes, and AWD, make up for almost 300 lbs in extra weight.
I'm curious as to how the suspension, brakes, and AWD, make up for almost 300 lbs in extra weight.
. Sorry, couldn't resist the wisecrack.c4surgeon is right. It was in an article about Rohl. Anyway, here is a compilation of times someone here got off the web. I do not make any claims on it's veracity or accuracy, and the usual disclaimer as to driver, driver intent, weather conditions, yada, yada, yada. I'm just supplying it add some meat to the discussion, or add fuel to the fire.
7:06 --- BMW M3 GTR, 24hrs, test session, Jörg Müller (2003)
7:19 --- Radical SR3 Turbo (2003),
7:20* -- Opel Astra DTM V8 Coupe, set-up for 24hrs race (sport auto 2003) *estimated
7:25 --- Alzen Motorsport Porsche 996 Turbo, 24hrs race, Uwe Alzen
7:28 --- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Röhrl, Autobild July 2004
7:32.5 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann (2001)
7:36 --- Porsche Carrera GT, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (2002)
7:40 --- Mercedes McLaren SLR, Klaus Ludwig, Autobild July 2004
7:42 --- Radical 1500 SR3 (2002)
7:43 --- TechArt GT Street (2001)
7:43.5 - Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine, 2002)
7:44 --- Pagani Zonda C12S (2003)
7:45 --- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 (2000)
7:46 --- Porsche 996 GT2
7:46 --- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (1999)
7:47 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381PS (996) (2004)
7:49 --- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (2003)
7:50 --- Blitz Supra, 750 PS, Herbert Schürg (1997)
7:50 --- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (1993)
7:50 --- Lamborghini Murcielago (2002)
7:52 --- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (1995)
7:52 --- Lamborghini Gallardo (2003)
7:52 --- Mercedes SLR McLaren (2004)
7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003)
7:55 --- Caterham R500 Superlight (2002)
7:56 --- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale (2004)
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
7:59 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Performance Chassis) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:02 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Sport PASM setting) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:03 --- Porsche 996 GT3 (1999)
8:04 --- Lamborghini Diablo GT
8:05 --- Ferrari 575M Maranello
8:05 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Normal PASM setting)(Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:06 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:06 --- Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn
8:07 --- Ferrari 550 Maranello
8:09 --- Honda NSX-R
8:09 --- Ferrari 360 Modena
8:09 --- Lamborghini Diablo SV (no ABS?)
8:10 --- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411PS, UK-Spec, no ABS
8:10 --- Donkervoort D8 180R
8:12 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:12 --- Porsche 993 Turbo
8:13 --- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS
8:14 --- Porsche 996 C4S
8:15 --- Porsche 911 Carrera 2 (997) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:16 --- AC-Schnitzer E36 M3 CLS II, 350 PS
8:17 --- Aston Martin Vanquish
8:17 --- Porsche 996 C2
8:18 --- BMW Z8, 400 PS (2002)
8:18 --- Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (2003)
8:18 --- Ferrari F355
8:20 --- Audi RS6
8:22 --- BMW E46 M3
8:22 --- BMW M Coupe, 321 PS
8:23 --- Aston Martin DB7 GT
8:23 --- Porsche 996 Carrera 4
8:25 --- Audi RS4 375 HP
03-18-2005, 03:08 PM
#68
Originally Posted by Palting
7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003)
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
8:14 --- Porsche 996 C4S
8:17 --- Porsche 996 C2
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
8:14 --- Porsche 996 C4S
8:17 --- Porsche 996 C2
03-18-2005, 03:09 PM
#69
Three Wheelin'
"WHO WERE THE DRIVERS????!! I DEMAND TO KNOW WHO WAS DRIVING THE C2 AND C4S!!!! BLASPHEMY. I CLAIM THE GT3 AS A C2 AND VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!
I second that...
I second that...
03-18-2005, 03:10 PM
#70
Nordschleife Master
Heh-heh-heh.
No way TD. The GT3 uses the C4S chassis, therefore I claim it as a C4S!!!!!!
What was interesting to me was how close the 997S with sport chassis, heavy, electronic laden, and, according to ROHL was just being taken out as a getting to know you run rather than a try at it's best, how close it came to the GT3.
No way TD. The GT3 uses the C4S chassis, therefore I claim it as a C4S!!!!!!
What was interesting to me was how close the 997S with sport chassis, heavy, electronic laden, and, according to ROHL was just being taken out as a getting to know you run rather than a try at it's best, how close it came to the GT3.
03-18-2005, 03:12 PM
#72
Originally Posted by Palting
Heh-heh-heh.
No way TD. The GT3 uses the C4S chassis, therefore I claim it as a C4S!!!!!!
No way TD. The GT3 uses the C4S chassis, therefore I claim it as a C4S!!!!!!
03-18-2005, 03:20 PM
#73
Cap'n Insane the Engorged
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Palting, I'm just giving you C4S guys a hard time because a 3.4l C4 is only 122 lbs heavier then it's C2 counter part.
I knew it felt fast when I drove it, but I'm really impressed with the 997 S times (and the C4S time).
I knew it felt fast when I drove it, but I'm really impressed with the 997 S times (and the C4S time).
Last edited by Rob in WA; 03-19-2005 at 09:25 PM.
03-18-2005, 03:29 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by TD in DC
WHO WERE THE DRIVERS????!! I DEMAND TO KNOW WHO WAS DRIVING THE C2 AND C4S!!!! BLASPHEMY. I CLAIM THE GT3 AS A C2 AND VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!
ive been to the 'ring to watch the gerry gp back in '98. the long course where you guys get the 'you-can-go-to-the-bank-bet-your-farm-and-hang-your-hat-on-it' 'ring times is the most unpredictable track you'll find. i've never driven it, but a friend with the bmwcca was a guest instructor one summer with a local bimmer club. tall tales abound at that place, and his experinces were no less interesting. long story short, published times should be taken with a grain of salt. you're better off comparing your own times at the local track. when you get waxed by lesser cars like a spec miata, you'll know what that means. fwiw, look at the radical's times...i can tell you without going to the ring, that's a quick car.
03-18-2005, 04:20 PM
#75
Pro
Originally Posted by Palting
Heh-heh-heh.
No way TD. The GT3 uses the C4S chassis, therefore I claim it as a C4S!!!!!!
What was interesting to me was how close the 997S with sport chassis, heavy, electronic laden, and, according to ROHL was just being taken out as a getting to know you run rather than a try at it's best, how close it came to the GT3.
No way TD. The GT3 uses the C4S chassis, therefore I claim it as a C4S!!!!!!
What was interesting to me was how close the 997S with sport chassis, heavy, electronic laden, and, according to ROHL was just being taken out as a getting to know you run rather than a try at it's best, how close it came to the GT3.