What's faster on the track C4 or C2
03-17-2005, 03:09 PM
#31
It hard to decide until we find one good driver to drive a C2 and C4 on the same track under the same condition.
I think the C4 might not be slower because I've instructed students with both C2 and C4. The C4's seems to not push as bad as my C2.
Kam
I think the C4 might not be slower because I've instructed students with both C2 and C4. The C4's seems to not push as bad as my C2.
Kam
03-17-2005, 03:15 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Ray S
I disagree. Have you ever spun your car at the track or autocross course? If so you were not only at the limit, you exceeded it.
most hpde'ers or autocrossers spin out becuase they did something wrong; usually trying to over correct or they did not set themselves up properly for a corner.
I think its deceiving to think that one spins out their P becuase they are pushing the limits at a DE event.
Last edited by evolvedaz; 03-17-2005 at 03:17 PM. Reason: spelling
03-17-2005, 03:26 PM
#33
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If you can lower the C4 to the same weight as the C2 you would have a dog fight on your hands. The C4 can generally get the power down quicker than a C2.
03-17-2005, 03:49 PM
#34
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by vividracing
that kind of limit is completely different than pushing the limits on fast consistent laps.
most hpde'ers or autocrossers spin out becuase they did something wrong; usually trying to over correct or they did not set themselves up properly for a corner.
I think its deceiving to think that one spins out their P becuase they are pushing the limits at a DE event.
most hpde'ers or autocrossers spin out becuase they did something wrong; usually trying to over correct or they did not set themselves up properly for a corner.
I think its deceiving to think that one spins out their P becuase they are pushing the limits at a DE event.
The easiest way to really experience the difference of a C2 and C4 is to drive them back to back on an autocross course. I had just such an opportunity a few years ago at a Porsche dealer event. There is considerable difference in the handling of these cars (an once again I'm not a pro).
I think people are fooling themselves if they don't think that the all weather benifits and safer handling that they get with the all wheel drive C4 doesn't come with handling and acceleration trade offs. Do you agree?
Personal priorities will dictate which car is right for any individual (neither is a "wrong" choice).
03-17-2005, 03:57 PM
#35
Porsche did not design the C4 for weather benefit. They design the C4 to handle better.
Weather benefit is not at the top of their design goals. It is a side benefit.
Kam
Weather benefit is not at the top of their design goals. It is a side benefit.
Kam
03-17-2005, 04:10 PM
#36
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by stiles_s
It's a tricky call, since the C4 will allow you to get on the gas sooner on corner exit. Also remember that the 996 C4 was named the best handling car in the world at the time. Not an understeering pig a'la Audi (see my sig ).
).The C4 definately has a traction advantage over the C2 on corner exit in low grip situations. However, in the dry (even with 320 hp on tap) I have not seen or experienced problems putting the power down (on exit) in a C2. That being said I agree that you should be able to "get in it" sooner with a C4.
03-17-2005, 04:47 PM
#38
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I was the guy who did the "tire management" post. It was not my opinion, it was information provided by Porsche when they launched the C4 996. I don't recall where I read it, (Panorama, Excellence, or another publication) I'll see if I can find it...
Roy
Roy
03-17-2005, 04:56 PM
#39
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As far as weight - on the 3.4l there's a 122 lb difference and it's in the front, the C4S weighs 275 lbs more then a 3.6l C2 though. Porsche's 0-62 times show only a tenth of a second difference.
03-17-2005, 05:07 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by ZBlue996Kam
Not experiencing problems putting the power down in a C2 does not conflict with a C4 can get the power down earlier.
"The C4 definately has a traction advantage over the C2 on corner exit in low grip situations. However, in the dry (even with 320 hp on tap) I have not seen or experienced problems putting the power down (on exit) in a C2. That being said I agree that you should be able to "get in it" sooner with a C4."
Originally Posted by ZBlue996Kam
Porsche did not design the C4 for weather benefit. They design the C4 to handle better.
Until then I will defer to the following quote they (Porsche) put on their web site "The all wheel drive system is complemented by the revolutionary Porsche Stability Management (PSM) system and provides optimum traction for less than optimal road conditions."
I'm not a linguist but that sounds like "weather benefit" speak to me.
03-17-2005, 05:12 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by fahren affair
on a flying lap, i'd put my money on the c2. lap-after-lap, over changing conditions, the c4 manages tires better and is more consistant. 'ring times are suspect and unreliable in absolute terms. it can be down pouring rain on one section, and dry and sunny at the other...times at the ring should be seen in broad terms, not down to the last hundredths. imo, a 2% difference over an 8-minute lap, is meaningless for comparing road cars.
i find it so funny how supposedly knowledgeable guys use the Ring time as the holy grail
03-17-2005, 07:55 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
How 'bout this:
My C4 is faster than your C2 anyday!!
Of course that was tongue in cheek. Lighten up. Threads like these are always fun, because there will never be a definitive answer. It will always be that one is better than the other in one condition or another. Even if we get one excellent driver to drive both, it can always be claimed that he was more experienced in driving one form of drivetrain over the other and therefore it was not the car that lost but the lack of experience. Excellent points have been made ove the advantages and differences between C2 and C4. and the limitations of testing, but there wil never be a definitive consensus on which one is faster.
BTW, what happenned to bowman98, the starter of this thread? One post and he's gone. He's probably sitting back reading this thread and laughing his a-- off.
My C4 is faster than your C2 anyday!!
Of course that was tongue in cheek. Lighten up. Threads like these are always fun, because there will never be a definitive answer. It will always be that one is better than the other in one condition or another. Even if we get one excellent driver to drive both, it can always be claimed that he was more experienced in driving one form of drivetrain over the other and therefore it was not the car that lost but the lack of experience. Excellent points have been made ove the advantages and differences between C2 and C4. and the limitations of testing, but there wil never be a definitive consensus on which one is faster.
BTW, what happenned to bowman98, the starter of this thread? One post and he's gone. He's probably sitting back reading this thread and laughing his a-- off.
03-17-2005, 09:47 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by ZBlue996Kam
It hard to decide until we find one good driver to drive a C2 and C4 on the same track under the same condition.
I think the C4 might not be slower because I've instructed students with both C2 and C4. The C4's seems to not push as bad as my C2.
Kam
I think the C4 might not be slower because I've instructed students with both C2 and C4. The C4's seems to not push as bad as my C2.
Kam
03-17-2005, 11:13 PM
#45
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by Palting
How 'bout this:
My C4 is faster than your C2 anyday!!
My C4 is faster than your C2 anyday!!
1/4 mile?
Top Speed?
The C4S definately has more "tire" and a wider track (advantages for sure), but it also has more weight, a higher cd, and added drivetrain drag.
It is interesting that Porsche uses the "narrow body" for the GT3.