danix

2001 C4 cabriolet. My brakes are german rotors with ceramic pads, properly bedded. Redid DOT4 brake fluid with power bleeder so there is no air in the system.
For a while now, I've felt that my brakes were subpar. The shop that installed them and another I asked both shrugged and said "normal".
I remember the Audi crew used to use boxster calipers to improve braking, and I find it hard to believe my 911 brakes are this bad.
If you push down hard, I mean NOW, they stop, but it's like they have no power boost whatsoever. The same effort on my son's BMW 135i would put you in the windshield.
I don't think the master cylinder is bad, and there are no other signs of booster issues.
Suggestions? Maybe I should find someone local and swap cars for a quick run to compare...

sublm8

The stock 996 brakes are very underboosted compared with "modern" cars. If you search the forum this is a common complaint. The feel to me is similar to the old unassisted air cooled cars. I personally appreciate the greater ability to modulate the 996's brakes, but yes if you compare it to any overassisted modern car the feel will be very different. That's not necessarily better. How does the 135 heel/toe coming out of a corner?
If it bothers you, look into the GT3 master cylinder upgrade, which reportedly improves feel.

GC996

If you want stopping power you need to move from ceramics to something more abrasive.

danix

Yeah, I was looking at Hawk pads, HPS street or maybe HP Plus Sport (I do the occasional autox).

Mike Murphy

+1. I think my Akebono pad are way more grabby than what I had before.

allcool

Well, as long as you asked...
From your post,,, No need to compare. Something is wrong. Don't know what it is.

After owning 7 Porsche thru the years, imo anyone complaining about Porsche brakes has a brake problem no doubt, or are on the track...something is wrong.

I also have an 01 c2 cab with 35,000 miles all oem Porsche, never touched (other than maintenance and imsb), garage kept 1 owner before me.
Bleed them thru about a year ago and its got a firm pedal at the top of its stroke. Just a little firm pressure and the car pulls down with confidence and predictability, from ridiculous exit ramp speeds.

My 02 c2 cab, 38,000 miles, garage kept by the ocean with all its corrosive effects. Brakes not great. I know why. Time for a full brake job. as rotors are all chewed up. But car still stops better than most 'not a Porsche' cars. They look like oem brakes, but not sure of its history.

Keep looking you'll find a problem...

sublm8

Don’t totally agree, sure he could have a prob but he’s comparing the 996 to a 135i, they’re never going to have the same brake feel. 2 shops already said they’re fine.

the stock 996 brakes are great but you have to put some effort in.

GC996

Yeah, pads make a huge difference. Sounds like he has fresh brake fluid. Doubt it's the master cylinder. They are pretty durable. Maybe he needs new brake lines or a caliper rebuild. All are possible. But more abrasive pads are pretty easy and cheap to start with and see.

But maybe you want even more braking power. Consider the GiroDisc 2 piece floating hat kit. You use your oem calipers and add the Girodisc kit. Pretty impressive kit and reasonably priced versus adding a big brake kit. The kit gives you much bigger rotors, better cooling and stopping power. Looks damn good too. Fills out the wheels nicely.

I never fault anybody that want more braking power.

ssherman68

That's one thing I've noticed on my 996 and one thing I'd tell to anyone driving it: "You need more force on the brake pedal than a normal grocery getter but it WILL stop once you do." I've read in another thread it's by design. I saw on a video about F1 cars that they need a LOT of force to get the brakes to activate, something like 250 lbs IIRC. Not that these are F1 cars, I'm saying lack of boost does not equal lack of stopping power. I think the lack of boost you're feeling is normal.

allcool

I can respect that....

Me also, as brakes imo are maybe the most important part of a sports car.

In another world many many decades ago, I use to specialize in performance/track brake jobs....

I still stand by my above post and claim Porsche brakes oem are some of the best brakes on any production car, and they 'feel' like it.
If they feel weak "subpar" like the OP stated above, something is wrong....

A lot goes into refreshing a 25 year old sport cars brakes correctly so it feels like new or better. More than the new rotors/pads we all talk about here. Very rarely here on our forum do we see caliper rebuilds, master cyl rebuilds, or talk about after market caliper pistons/seals.

You can't flush out all the gummed up crap behind caliper pistons, or behind the piston seals, with a brake fluid flush. All it takes is gummed up pistons/calipers that still work but not well to detract from brake performance. Just a bubble of old fluid full of water trapped in a caliper or 2 will detract from pedal feel. Once you take apart a 25 year old caliper that has been neglected you'll see what I mean.
Or swollen old rubber brake lines can detract from brake performance, as old gummed up master cyls, abs, etc, all can....

Like i said, in many cases its not as easy as a quality rotor pad change and a quick fluid flush...

sublm8

Here's some historical data from 2007 with multiple 996 owners reporting their experience. This would have been well before any age-related caliper issues.

Brake Pedal feeling - 996 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Targa) - RennTech.org Community

kincedn9

I have c4s. Turbo brakes from factory and still using them. Couple of track days on them, and they impressed me. No fade. Could stand on em at the end of the straights all weekend long with an issue.

allcool

Its not just 25year old age, a lot can happen in 9 years. brake fluid is hygroscopic.

I'd hardly call that thread "historical data"...
Fact remains, if your 996 brakes feel weak "subpar" as OP claims in first post of this thread, something is wrong imo.

Here is a quote from your above thread/link... In 2024, on the net, one can find back up to almost any claim they want...

MechanicalEng

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• Members
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• From:MD

Posted January 15, 2007 I had a 2000 Mustang GT back when I was in college. I could easily overheat the brakes with 3 panic stops. For me the brakes in my 02' C2 are simply awesome!, the pedal is hard and 100% fade free, they inspire so much confidence and the feedback you get from them is just out of this world.. I test drove a 03 M3 before getting my C2 and I found the brakes to be not as strong as the ones in a C2...

tommelton

I have a BMW Club Race car - 1997 M3, Prepared class. When I built the car, I upgraded from the factory M3 calipers to the 993 TT calipers and rotors (Brembo Big Reds). They have been phenomenal over the years. I did also upgrade from the factory holed rotors to Alcon replacement rotor rings. Excellent stopping power, long lasting (with the Alcon rotors - Porsche holed rotors would crack/fail in too few weekends). Never had issues with fade, only issue was the factory M3 ABS and ice mode.

My 996 C2 - I have upgraded to the Girodisc rotors - have no issues with braking.

-Tom
2003 C2

GC996

Yeah, I had the oem brakes on my 996.2 from 2002 thru 2006 and tracked the car with them. But eventually outgrew them. Then I went to the Brembo GT big brake kit with much bigger calipers and much bigger discs of 355F and 345R. Night and day difference in braking power. Never replaced the master cylinder either and still working fine after 22 years.

However, i have had the calipers rebuilt a couple of times over the years because stuff gets stuck. Especially on the street from salt, dirt and anything else that you come into contact with.

Eventually every 996 will need a caliper rebuild, new brake lines, new master cylinder or bits, etc. Street car or track car or both, it's inevitable with age.

But...
Assuming everything checks out to be in good shape, brake pads will then make a huge difference.