Diligence on an ‘03 Coupe
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 15
Likes: 13
Diligence on an ‘03 Coupe
Hello Good People — I looked at a 996 manual coupe today (sans aero kit...boo!). It’s very clean inside and out. 35k miles but there are a few yellow flags: At a used car dealership; no known info on the 3 previous owners; only records are from Carfax; and at $34k the asking price is at the high end of the range. Although I will most certainly have a PPI performed if I opt to move forward, I would love some help interpreting the Carfax statement that in 2007 at 15k miles, “the transmission was removed and reinstalled and the front crankshaft oil seal replaced.” This work was done at a Porsche dealer. Is this an IMS fix? If so, given that it was done 13 years and 20k miles ago, should I be worried that it needs to be done again? Not surprisingly, the used-car dealer is claiming that all of this makes the IMS concern a non-issue but I always have a healthy amount of skepticism when conversing w/ a dealer. Am I seeing ghosts? Note, if I provide a Porsche dealer with the VIN, will they give me more detailed info w/o divulging any owner’s personal data? Kindly let me know. Thanks in advance!
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 434
From: Apalachin, New York
Hello Good People — I looked at a 996 manual coupe today (sans aero kit...boo!). It’s very clean inside and out. 35k miles but there are a few yellow flags: At a used car dealership; no known info on the 3 previous owners; only records are from Carfax; and at $34k the asking price is at the high end of the range. Although I will most certainly have a PPI performed if I opt to move forward, I would love some help interpreting the Carfax statement that in 2007 at 15k miles, “the transmission was removed and reinstalled and the front crankshaft oil seal replaced.” This work was done at a Porsche dealer. Is this an IMS fix? If so, given that it was done 13 years and 20k miles ago, should I be worried that it needs to be done again? Not surprisingly, the used-car dealer is claiming that all of this makes the IMS concern a non-issue but I always have a healthy amount of skepticism when conversing w/ a dealer. Am I seeing ghosts? Note, if I provide a Porsche dealer with the VIN, will they give me more detailed info w/o divulging any owner’s personal data? Kindly let me know. Thanks in advance!
13 years @ 20k miles
Plan on lots of things that will need to be replaced, unless the maintenance is documented
I would budget $4k-$5k the first year of ownership, unless you can wrench it yourself, this is realty of buying a garage queen
By all means do a PPI.
BTW, '03 Aero
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 436
From: Central CT
Sounds like an RMS (Rear Main Seal) replacement by someone confused by the difference between back and front. I'd argue that this is useless information given the delta between when that repair was done and now.
I'd be super wary of this car. Plan on doing something about the IMSB in the immediate future (by a trusted shop, not as a condition of sale by this dealer) and a very thorough PPI. Unless this car presents 100%, I'd consider walking away now.
Results in getting dealer records tend to be mixed. If you can find the dealer that serviced the car you'll have the best luck there...although it sounds like the RMS repair might be one of a precious few dealer visits.
Sorry if this response comes off negative, but to me those yellow flags are red.
I'd be super wary of this car. Plan on doing something about the IMSB in the immediate future (by a trusted shop, not as a condition of sale by this dealer) and a very thorough PPI. Unless this car presents 100%, I'd consider walking away now.
Results in getting dealer records tend to be mixed. If you can find the dealer that serviced the car you'll have the best luck there...although it sounds like the RMS repair might be one of a precious few dealer visits.
Sorry if this response comes off negative, but to me those yellow flags are red.
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 15
Likes: 13
Thanks for the responses thus far. Please keep them coming. I truly appreciate the unvarnished truth. A bit sobering but want to be armed with as much info as possible so that I can become an educated buyer...whether on this car or another 996. Will see what other facts I can unearth on this car to be the basis for next steps, if any.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 1,236
From: SF Bay Area, CA
It's a really high asking price without any data to show the state of the engine, maintenance wise or current inspection wise. You cannot assume a low mileage engine is in good health. There are examples on both sides where there are zero issues going forward and engines fail in 100's of miles of purchase. Lower mileage cars tend to have more issues from sitting around. The problem is how to tell the difference right now. Oil analysis and bore inspections are the way to go, but this is tricky to get done as well as the sump needs to be removed and a scope goes poking around up in the engine. Since the price of the car is so high, maybe they'd be willing to do these things to support the sale. Cars with bad engines sell as 'rollers' for $5K-$10K because a dud engine is $20K-$30K to have repaired or replaced. These are amazing cars. Everyone on the boards seems to be addicted to them. Hopefully you'll be one of them. Move forward carefully. 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,147
Likes: 404
From: Greater Toronto Area
2003 Couple is the best year of 996 lol. That is what I have.
My car was purchased from a Porsche dealer in late 2018, biggest in Canada. 45000 miles. I have records for the first 10000 miles and last 20000 miles. What sold me on the car was the Porsche battery showing it was dealer maintained.
I still had the car ppi'ed. Not at the selling dealer. 2 tiered approach to PPI. Tier 1: Basic checks. Brakes, Tires, Paint etc. Based on overall condition, I had them do Tier 2 check: Leakdown and bore scope camera. PPI found leaky RMS. Estimate of fix: $1400. Dealer discounted car by that amount. Car was bought, before taxes for $32K, Canadian. ~$25K US. Cars, even after exchange tend to be higher in Canada. Car was premium priced due to being at Porsche dealer and a Canadian car (Speedo in Kph).
I think your car is priced high.
Also, I had the solution, AOS, Clutch, Flywheel, Water pump done within 2 weeks of purchase.
My car was purchased from a Porsche dealer in late 2018, biggest in Canada. 45000 miles. I have records for the first 10000 miles and last 20000 miles. What sold me on the car was the Porsche battery showing it was dealer maintained.
I still had the car ppi'ed. Not at the selling dealer. 2 tiered approach to PPI. Tier 1: Basic checks. Brakes, Tires, Paint etc. Based on overall condition, I had them do Tier 2 check: Leakdown and bore scope camera. PPI found leaky RMS. Estimate of fix: $1400. Dealer discounted car by that amount. Car was bought, before taxes for $32K, Canadian. ~$25K US. Cars, even after exchange tend to be higher in Canada. Car was premium priced due to being at Porsche dealer and a Canadian car (Speedo in Kph).
I think your car is priced high.
Also, I had the solution, AOS, Clutch, Flywheel, Water pump done within 2 weeks of purchase.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,050
Likes: 819
From: Kauai
Thanks for the responses thus far. Please keep them coming. I truly appreciate the unvarnished truth. A bit sobering but want to be armed with as much info as possible so that I can become an educated buyer...whether on this car or another 996. Will see what other facts I can unearth on this car to be the basis for next steps, if any.
Last edited by 808Bill; Dec 28, 2020 at 12:27 PM.
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Nordschleife Master
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 5,723
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From: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Hello Good People — I looked at a 996 manual coupe today (sans aero kit...boo!). It’s very clean inside and out. 35k miles but there are a few yellow flags: At a used car dealership; no known info on the 3 previous owners; only records are from Carfax; and at $34k the asking price is at the high end of the range.
I would love some help interpreting the Carfax statement that in 2007 at 15k miles, “the transmission was removed and reinstalled and the front crankshaft oil seal replaced.” This work was done at a Porsche dealer. Is this an IMS fix? If so, given that it was done 13 years and 20k miles ago, should I be worried that it needs to be done again?
Removing the transmission doesn't automatically they're going to carry out an IMS replacement, but it wouldn't hurt to see the actual invoice. Even still, 2007 is 13 years ago as you note and even if the IMS was replaced, it will be time to replace it again. Remember, not just miles, but also time in service.
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Racer
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 494
Likes: 193
From: San Diego - North County
I agree that this car is overpriced. Even if it were in mint condition, had all service records back to 2003 and proof the IMSB had been replaced it would still be a bit overpriced.
I think the dealer telling you that the IMSB was replaced just because there's a tranny repair in its history is a flat out lie. I don't think Porsche dealers replaced IMSBs back in 2007. If it went out, they just replaced the engine (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).
I think the dealer telling you that the IMSB was replaced just because there's a tranny repair in its history is a flat out lie. I don't think Porsche dealers replaced IMSBs back in 2007. If it went out, they just replaced the engine (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,968
Likes: 2,342
From: Cleveland Georgia
Buying these cars primarily for low mileage is a huge mistake.
In 2007 the IMS Retrofit was a black art. It took till 2011 or so for dealers to start doing the work using the components, and procedures/ tools that I developed.
In 2007 every dealer that someone talked to would tell them that it was impossible to remove the IMS bearing from the engine.
I lived through all those stories, and vividly remember it
In 2007 the IMS Retrofit was a black art. It took till 2011 or so for dealers to start doing the work using the components, and procedures/ tools that I developed.
In 2007 every dealer that someone talked to would tell them that it was impossible to remove the IMS bearing from the engine.
I lived through all those stories, and vividly remember it
Thread Starter
Track Day
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 15
Likes: 13
Wow, I’ve been a member of this forum for all of 5 minutes and it’s paying huge dividends! Thank you very much. Though this exact car may not be in my future, a 996 will be for sure. I think I will hold off to get one with a better history and an aero kit. My hope is that my new found knowledge will be put to good use. As my late mother used to say, “don’t settle; wait for what you really want.” Patience was never my strong suit but I will heed my mother’s advise...this time!
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 434
From: Apalachin, New York
Sounds like an RMS (Rear Main Seal) replacement by someone confused by the difference between back and front. I'd argue that this is useless information given the delta between when that repair was done and now.
I'd be super wary of this car. Plan on doing something about the IMSB in the immediate future (by a trusted shop, not as a condition of sale by this dealer) and a very thorough PPI. Unless this car presents 100%, I'd consider walking away now.
Results in getting dealer records tend to be mixed. If you can find the dealer that serviced the car you'll have the best luck there...although it sounds like the RMS repair might be one of a precious few dealer visits.
Sorry if this response comes off negative, but to me those yellow flags are red.
I'd be super wary of this car. Plan on doing something about the IMSB in the immediate future (by a trusted shop, not as a condition of sale by this dealer) and a very thorough PPI. Unless this car presents 100%, I'd consider walking away now.
Results in getting dealer records tend to be mixed. If you can find the dealer that serviced the car you'll have the best luck there...although it sounds like the RMS repair might be one of a precious few dealer visits.
Sorry if this response comes off negative, but to me those yellow flags are red.
The truth is walk away
.....little bit more you could buy my car ......
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 434
From: Apalachin, New York
It's a really high asking price without any data to show the state of the engine, maintenance wise or current inspection wise. You cannot assume a low mileage engine is in good health. There are examples on both sides where there are zero issues going forward and engines fail in 100's of miles of purchase. Lower mileage cars tend to have more issues from sitting around. The problem is how to tell the difference right now. Oil analysis and bore inspections are the way to go, but this is tricky to get done as well as the sump needs to be removed and a scope goes poking around up in the engine. Since the price of the car is so high, maybe they'd be willing to do these things to support the sale. Cars with bad engines sell as 'rollers' for $5K-$10K because a dud engine is $20K-$30K to have repaired or replaced. These are amazing cars. Everyone on the boards seems to be addicted to them. Hopefully you'll be one of them. Move forward carefully.
True, just read all the post on RL and 6speed
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 157
Likes: 74
I think I may have checked out this car today if it's located at a dealer in Lowell, MA. I'm in the hunt for a 996 as well. Of the four I've checked out recently, this was the cleanest. I got the same answer on the service records ("it's on the Carfax). Apparently it was serviced at Herb Chambers, so they will probably know more about the vehicle. Overall it was very clean interior and exterior. Tires had a 2017 build date and suspension looked clean with no torn/trashed bump stops that I've seen on some. That being said, yes, the price is on the high side, especially considering this is a pretty low option car. They may be paying too much attention to bringatrailer auctions and it's listed on CarGurus as a 4S, which may be influencing their pricing (even though it's not a 4S). I'm sure this one will go north of 30k, but not $35k. If this was a 4S, it would be a different story.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 434
From: Apalachin, New York
2003 Couple is the best year of 996 lol. That is what I have.
My car was purchased from a Porsche dealer in late 2018, biggest in Canada. 45000 miles. I have records for the first 10000 miles and last 20000 miles. What sold me on the car was the Porsche battery showing it was dealer maintained.
I still had the car ppi'ed. Not at the selling dealer. 2 tiered approach to PPI. Tier 1: Basic checks. Brakes, Tires, Paint etc. Based on overall condition, I had them do Tier 2 check: Leakdown and bore scope camera. PPI found leaky RMS. Estimate of fix: $1400. Dealer discounted car by that amount. Car was bought, before taxes for $32K, Canadian. ~$25K US. Cars, even after exchange tend to be higher in Canada. Car was premium priced due to being at Porsche dealer and a Canadian car (Speedo in Kph).
I think your car is priced high.
Also, I had the solution, AOS, Clutch, Flywheel, Water pump done within 2 weeks of purchase.
My car was purchased from a Porsche dealer in late 2018, biggest in Canada. 45000 miles. I have records for the first 10000 miles and last 20000 miles. What sold me on the car was the Porsche battery showing it was dealer maintained.
I still had the car ppi'ed. Not at the selling dealer. 2 tiered approach to PPI. Tier 1: Basic checks. Brakes, Tires, Paint etc. Based on overall condition, I had them do Tier 2 check: Leakdown and bore scope camera. PPI found leaky RMS. Estimate of fix: $1400. Dealer discounted car by that amount. Car was bought, before taxes for $32K, Canadian. ~$25K US. Cars, even after exchange tend to be higher in Canada. Car was premium priced due to being at Porsche dealer and a Canadian car (Speedo in Kph).
I think your car is priced high.
Also, I had the solution, AOS, Clutch, Flywheel, Water pump done within 2 weeks of purchase.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The price of 996s have gone up since then
Last edited by Fieldsport; Dec 28, 2020 at 05:06 PM.