phil823

I recently bought a 2003 996 C4. it is suffering from the warm hard to start (low voltage) issues. last night i decided to trial this issue and pulled into the garage turned off the car and immediately tried to restart it and it actually wasn't able to start without letting it sit for a few minutes. it cranked over like a near dead battery would. everything dimmed and it slow chugged. through research it appears is either Starter Cable, Starter or Alternator. Through research it appears that cable can be bought for about 70$ or you can make your own out of 2/0 Wire with the right end caps. I started looking into the starter and realized that in other cars i have been able to rebuild them for exponentially cheaper. This let to the research for rebuild kits!

this search cross referencing OEM Porsche Parts to Bosch Parts ended up leading me to
https://nextgearap.gocadence.com/Cat...arter-Motor/#2
There you can see a full brand/number part reference list.

From that information i was able to find the Lester number and cross reference what i believe to be the rebuild kit from this website https://www.aspwholesale.com/starter...it-p14980.html

I have not completed this yet, but wanted to offer the information found to anyone who would rather rebuild the OEM starter for like 60$ themselves vs. pay for a replacement. It appears the parts rebuild kit is pretty comprehensive.

Let me know if anyone has already done this foot work and self rebuilt a starter instead of replacing!

Here are some other interesting starter websites to help people that may or may not be 100% correct for our cars.
https://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/12vstfor20po3.html
https://onecarpart.com/repair-kit-0-...agen-seat.html
https://iat-usa.com/product/4144-bos...rter-armature/

Porschetech3

Nice source !! Hope the rebuild kit fits and has all the necessary parts.

I used to rebuild many starters and alternators at Dealerships in my 40+ years, but Manufactures stopped supplying the rebuild parts long ago. Good to see parts available and the skill still exists..

jdbornem

Damn you. This is so helpful I might have to do it now.
I might start a separate thread, but my plan for this winter's maintenance (2004 C4S, 102k) was already:
- Replace AOS with UAOS (Thanks Porschetech3!)
- Replace alternator/starter wire. (which corrodes).
- Replace fuel injectors (nervous about DIY'ing this one).
- Clean, check and possibly replace alternator with 997 version
- Replace a rough tensioner pulley.

So, it would seem a shame not to check out and clean/refurb the starter motor too. The list is snowballing.
Can someone talk me down as to why I shouldn't mess with the starter, "while I'm in there"?

Josh

phil823

Yea np! hopefully this can help someone and lead them down a cheaper, and higher quality path! I'm all about saving money wherever its plausible as long as it does not sacrifice durability or quality.
i will attempt this project this winter also so I should have more information at a later date.

I'm going to be replacing the alternator/starter cable with a custom made one instead of the Porsche OEM. it appears people are having pretty good luck with 2 individual cables instead of the "Y". the upgraded wires are bigger than stock also.
Allegedly 1/0 red cable 30" long with 5/16th lugs on both ends for the starter to post wire. 4AWG wire 30" long 5/16 on both ends for the alternator to post wire. Install a longer 1 1/4" bolt on the junction box of the original that you remove. 1/0 cable 12" long with 5/16th lugs for the ground wire.
It appears this setup costs about 30$-35$ shipped. so half the price of OEM, bigger (less resistance) wires and you can replace/test them individually in the future if you even need to.

jdbornem

Wow, thanks. I'm trying to follow what you just described. Have others done this wiring modification?
I was considering doing this, but I was either going to just buy the Porsche part, or maybe customize the existing paths with larger gauge wire, with soldered connectors and dielectric grease under the boots.
Here's what I think you said. I haven't taken it apart yet, so I don't know which ground wire (12") you are talking about, or where it goes.

phil823

yea i have not done it myself yet, but i have read about a few others doing the custom wiring that way. from a wiring prospective it makes sense. The ground wire goes from the alternator mount bolt to the engine mount bolt, or i suppose you could mount it nearly anywhere. the point is to have a nice new low resistance cable the mounts the engine to the body. also notable is that the Alternator charging circuit is not going through a small cable through the starter to a large cable. it also means you can isolate an issue if say....the alternator cable is bad vs the starter as they arnt "chained" together
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...g-voltage.html

he used different lengths (2x 24inches and 1 16 inche)...perhaps his are better than mine. i see all different lengths from different people. i suppose it depends on if you want to route it the same way as OEM or different.

jdbornem

Thanks for the link, I missed that, and wasn't really searching for this, since it's in my 'while I'm in there' category.
Let us know how your starter rebuild goes!

JohnCA58

I did the two cables and the ground strap at right front of the engine couple years ago, order the cables from Battery Cable USA great mod.

https://www.batterycablesusa.com/?gc...RoCF2IQAvD_BwE

phil823

Thanks for adding! Was my listed measurements right for lengths?

JohnCA58

Yes, your lengths works, I also use plastic split wire loom for the two positives wires to protect the cables.

phil823

Cables are ordered. I remove and took apart my starter.
It is basically EXACTLY like the one listed above in my the rebuild video. I took everything apart, brake cleaned it...lube the stuff that needed to be lubed. cleaned up the bushings and the commutator. With that being said i now firmly believe that the rebuild kit listed above would be perfect for our OEM starters.

Also while doing research i found this starter that is from a well rated company and they don't require a Core so you can keep the original to play around with. The price is CRAZY cheap ($80) compared to other places. they are USA based. possibly a good option for someone wanting to rebuild OEM and have a new one to put in the car.
https://www.dbelectrical.com/product...gt-cayman.html

@JohnCA58 How did you make your new 1.25" bolt that you put into the post box thing to stay? did you use adhesive?

JohnCA58

been so long ago, I'll take a look tomorrow. the only thing I remember is using boiling water.

phil823

Update! between the starter refresh and the new cables its starting amazing! super fast and without any hesitation! No more hot soaked corroded cables! John, i ended up using a 1.25" round head Stainless steel bolt. with Epoxy putty on the head end of it to adhesive it into the whole. i also trimmed about 1/8th of an inch off the bolt to make it fit into the old "post" box.
@JohnCA58 where do i put this 12" ground cable i ordered? i couldnt find a place appropriate for it...any ideas?

Tips for the job:

• Spray PB Blaster onto the "front" (towards the front of the car) alternator bushing on the top mount. also to help remove the top mount you need to use the screw you just removed, threaded it in a little bit, and hit with a hammer to help drive the bushing out more. To reinstall...more pb blaster on the bushing, and use a socket and a c clamp to push the bushing flush with the alternator mount.
• WHEN you break a hard line vacuum hose, replace the long runs with 1/8th soft hose and use the broken pieces as adapters for the "y's"
• replacing the plenum is a pain in the ***....use a screw driver and liberal force/manipulation....
• Use 500-600 grit sandpaper on the starter bushings and commutator to clean it up.

I Hope this thread can help someone else save time and money! this whole job was pretty easy and could be done in a few hours, moving slowly including the starter and cleaning up.

JohnCA58

Phil, go to the passenger side right next to and above your oil filter and you will find the engine to chassis ground strap, replace it with new ground strap.

jdbornem

It seems that some add an additional ground strap from one of the alternator mount points to the chassis? https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post15735058
I haven't done any of this, but some version of it will be part of my winter maintenance, so I'm also interested in the planning details!