Notices
996 Forum 1999-2005
Sponsored by:

2 C4 IMS bearing

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 7, 2020 | 09:40 AM
  #46  
Charles Navarro's Avatar
Charles Navarro
Platinum Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

20 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,815
Likes: 1,703
From: Momence, IL
Default

Originally Posted by matvrix
Yep, that's what the mechanic says. Apparently, had been it pulled 3-4mm/ past the snap ring.
I've read through the multitude of replies and I must add that the shop already compromised the original bearing by pulling on the center race which loads up the ***** to the outer race. To top that off, pushing on the center race will just make this worse. The forces applied to the baring cause brinelling which results in permanent indentations in the races caused by the forced transferred through the *****. Shop messed up royally. Engine disassembly is the only correct course of action.
Reply
Old Jun 7, 2020 | 09:56 AM
  #47  
Nick_L's Avatar
Nick_L
Racer
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 367
Likes: 95
From: cote du rhone
Default

Originally Posted by 4Driver4
The problem is that the heavier grease is displaced by lighter viscosity oil that does not circulate freely in and out of the bearing; it can only seep through the seal. The shaft itself is basically a light gauge hollow tube, and I doubt it can absorb much heat from the bearing. You really need the sealed-in grease or circulating oil; semi-sealed oil is not adequate.

Wheel bearings heat up, but the knuckle they live in is heavy cast steel that is a far better heat sync than the IMS. Also, wheel bearing do not turn the kinds of RPM that the IMSB sees.
Maybe my wheel bearing example was not that good. How about: I'm wiriting this on a macbook pro and it's generating roughly the same heat as the IMS bearing does. We are talking very small amounts of heat, it's a ball bearing, it's supposed to generate minimal friction forces.

If we take my laptop, strap the IMS shaft to the CPU as heat sink and then submerge it all into an oil bath. Then it would be rather overkill cooling. Same as the IMS bearing.

If the bearing is in a mode of failing, then yes, the heat goes up drastically. But, look at pictures of failed bearings, they are still not overheated.

Reply
Old Jun 7, 2020 | 11:09 AM
  #48  
DBJoe996's Avatar
DBJoe996
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,266
Likes: 1,496
From: Ormond Beach, FL
Default

This is a disaster. Shop is responsible. Have them drop the engine and put it on a pallet. Ship it to Flat Six for a rebuild. Take out a second mortgage on your house, you will need it, unless you have a spare 15-20K in your bank account. There really is no other remedy since they attempted to extract the bearing which cannot be extracted. Boy what a screw up! If it were me, I would already have the car out of that shop and would have it shipped directly to Flat Six. Please listen to the experts:
I've read through the multitude of replies and I must add that the shop already compromised the original bearing by pulling on the center race which loads up the ***** to the outer race. To top that off, pushing on the center race will just make this worse. The forces applied to the baring cause brinelling which results in permanent indentations in the races caused by the forced transferred through the *****. Shop messed up royally. Engine disassembly is the only correct course of action.
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies Cylinders, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Reply
Old Jun 7, 2020 | 10:01 PM
  #49  
dporto's Avatar
dporto
Rennlist Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,937
Likes: 1,287
From: L.I. NY
Default

Originally Posted by lowpue
Something I always wondered....if you can't remove the bearing, how do you remove the seal from both sides?
You only remove the outer seal...
Reply
Old Jun 7, 2020 | 10:05 PM
  #50  
dporto's Avatar
dporto
Rennlist Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,937
Likes: 1,287
From: L.I. NY
Default

Originally Posted by 4Driver4
That, or they could have looked at the bearing before they started tugging on it.

^^^ Had they known anything about the different bearings they would have known before they even took the flange off... The big bearing has THE BIG NUT!
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 01:39 PM
  #51  
808Bill's Avatar
808Bill
Nordschleife Master
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,050
Likes: 819
From: Kauai
Default

Originally Posted by Charles Navarro
I've read through the multitude of replies and I must add that the shop already compromised the original bearing by pulling on the center race which loads up the ***** to the outer race. To top that off, pushing on the center race will just make this worse. The forces applied to the baring cause brinelling which results in permanent indentations in the races caused by the forced transferred through the *****. Shop messed up royally. Engine disassembly is the only correct course of action.
This from someone that knows what they are talking about. Your motor needs to be torn down and rebuilt!
You had a perfectly fine motor and your mechanic ruined it...So sorry you have to go through this.
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 01:48 PM
  #52  
TexSquirrel's Avatar
TexSquirrel
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,840
Likes: 2,975
From: Richmond, TX
Default

If Charles says it needs to be replaced, then it needs to be replaced.
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 08:21 PM
  #53  
matvrix's Avatar
matvrix
Thread Starter
Track Day
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 23
Likes: 1
From: GA
Default

Seems like Flat Six is not going touch this block with a barge pole for a rebuild. However, exploring other routes...
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 08:32 PM
  #54  
Scott at Team Harco's Avatar
Scott at Team Harco
Just a car guy
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,927
Likes: 837
From: South Lyon, Michigan, Ewe Ess Eh
Default

Originally Posted by matvrix
Seems like Flat Six is not going touch this block with a barge pole for a rebuild. However, exploring other routes...
I guess you didn't pass the sanity check.
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 08:37 PM
  #55  
Charles Navarro's Avatar
Charles Navarro
Platinum Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

20 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,815
Likes: 1,703
From: Momence, IL
Default

Originally Posted by Scott at Team Harco
I guess you didn't pass the sanity check.
Trunk jobs have their inherent risks. Many shops won't take on an open pandora's box.
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 08:43 PM
  #56  
Scott at Team Harco's Avatar
Scott at Team Harco
Just a car guy
Rennlist Member

 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,927
Likes: 837
From: South Lyon, Michigan, Ewe Ess Eh
Default

Originally Posted by Charles Navarro
Trunk jobs have their inherent risks. Many shops won't take on an open pandora's box.
Please excuse my ignorance. What is meant by a "trunk job"?

My comment was in reference to Jake 'interviewing' out his potential clientele.
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 08:48 PM
  #57  
Charles Navarro's Avatar
Charles Navarro
Platinum Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

20 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,815
Likes: 1,703
From: Momence, IL
Default

Originally Posted by Scott at Team Harco
Please excuse my ignorance. What is meant by a "trunk job"?

My comment was in reference to Jake 'interviewing' out his potential clientele.
An extreme example of a trunk job would be a car that comes into the shop in pieces, with the engine already disassembled in boxes on a pallet, but sometimes in the trunk or in the interior, hence where the name came from. Not something I coined :-)
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 08:52 PM
  #58  
85eurocarrera's Avatar
85eurocarrera
Burning Brakes
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,054
Likes: 618
From: Minnesota
Default

Have the shop buy it from you for what is was worth before they fuched it up. A full rebuild is what, $25k or so?
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 09:04 PM
  #59  
shft22's Avatar
shft22
Racer
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 278
Likes: 58
From: South Florida
Default

Comment on the bearing seal. My car also has an 05 replacement engine with the large bearing, discovered the large bearing while replacing the clutch and RMS.

Following the recommendations here, I removed the real seal of the bearing. The way I did this was by very carefully inserting a dentist pick and pulling on the seal. When it came off it sounded like when you open a soda can, so it had pressure, either high or low but its internal pressure was different from the outside. The inside of the bearing was very dry, it had no oil and no grease whatsoever. Engine had around 45k miles at the time.
Reply
Old Jun 8, 2020 | 09:23 PM
  #60  
TexSquirrel's Avatar
TexSquirrel
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,840
Likes: 2,975
From: Richmond, TX
Default

I worked for a shop back in the 90s that took in a couple of trunk jobs.
They never were warrantied, and they never turned out well.
Literally the parts were unmarked in boxes.
The customers had torn down the engines themselves and dumped the parts in boxes.
These were the same people who didn’t want to buy any new parts.
I would NEVER take on a trunk job.
This one at least is not disassembled yet!
Reply



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 11:50 AM.