steam_mill

wyovino

Find a reliable shop that will do the Solution. While the dual-row retro fit is a viable alternative, the fact that he is against the solution tells me that you should find another indy. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Provide your location and someone here might be able to recommend a shop.

JTT

Everything will degrade over time...and everyone has opinions. I'd be willing to bet it comes down to all the hoops a shop has to jump through and $$$ it costs them to become a "certified installer", which many will consider as just another way to extricate cash from them...again...opinions.

dporto

^^ This ^^... I did my IMS Solution myself - it's not difficult, and it's the same process as the bearing retrofit (except cutting a notch in the crankcase for the oil line). As for "not agreeing" with The Solution - this just makes no sense. The plain bearing design is essentially the same as Porsche had been using prior to the sealed ball bearing used in the M96. It's also the same type as the bearing used in the Mezger designed GT3 and Turbo engines that don't suffer IMSB failures... What's not to agree with?

Dranon

Opinions are like ********...everyone has one. Go with facts not opinions. If you really want this car forever get the forever solution. I had mine trailered to a certified indy 4 hours away to get the solution done. Then I took a train out when it was finished and drove it home! BEST DRIVE EVER!

Triple Black

Yes, the IMSB can fail, even at lower mileage - I had one and it's a very expensive repair. The small single row bearing (MY2000 to 2005) has the highest failure rate. Find a certified shop and do the Solution for the ultimate peace of mind (just one more opinion).

NuttyProfessor

Well known indy in my area said the same thing, "I've NEVER seen a IMS bearing fail!"... That's because he doesn't deal with Porsches. (facepalm)

NuttyProfessor

In order for a shop to install and warranty IMS solution retrofits, they must be a certified. The process of certification is extensive and thorough, not some online read through the terms and sign a declaimer process, but hands-on training by Jake Raby and Charles Navarro.

I was in the same boat as you. I looked at all the products and went with the proven Mezger plain bearing design of the IMS solution. Made sense to me. The GT3 and Turbo models have the plain bearing design and don't fail like dporto wisely stated. If you really want to keep the car for a long time, then make the wise choice and go with the IMS solution.

Mainely996

Solution all the way. I would find a Certified Installer and either drive and stay for a few days or ship the car there. Well worth the piece of mind.

Flat6 Innovations

Guys, Jake Raby here.
I have been away from RL for a long time, and while I really should not reply to this forum post, I find it necessary to bust the fake news with facts that you can only attain directly from the Inventor of the IMS Solution.

First, business and politics have nothing to do with the Certified Installer program. Anything that you may read about this is just more fake news, and I'll explain this further below. People love to make assumptions, and start drama. I will crush those with fact as you read this further.

Before going further I'll state that the only ties that I chose to retain when relinquishing the IMS Solution sales, marketing, and circulation was related to the Certified Installer program. When someone thats as serious about things as I am creates something from scratch, we don't want to see fools install it incorrectly. Its called pride, and its backed up with dedication.
So, when it was time for the Solution to hit the market, thats when I was effectively "done" with it. I hate selling things, and wish I could just give engines away. I hate business, and hate to feel like I must answer to purchasers that have just bought a part from me. This is why my company, Flat 6 Innovations refuses to sell parts, or even offer services outside of a complete engine reconstruction. This is also why you can't buy an IMS Solution from Flat 6 Innovations. or any other part. We don't even want to sell T shirts, or decals! Last month 914 Okteenerfest passed by our shop, and instead of offering people things to buy I announced that "nothing will be sold here today". Then everyone in attendance walked away with a free T shirt.

What we are the best at is building engines, and developing components, and processes. An engine is all that we have to sell you.

Here is why I mandated the Certified Installer program be implemented:
1- So shops that are doing this work "have something to lose". Any normal shop out there has access to the parts to do this work, but when they install the product, they have nothing to lose if they fail to pre- qualify the engine, or do a haphazard job that leads to a failure. While there are many, many hundreds of good shops out there that can do the job just as well as a Certified Installer, these shops have not been specifically trained, and have nothing to lose if they make poor decisions that lead to a failure, or a complaint.

2- Regular shops that are not Certified often try to jam out the work. Generally speaking they charge "flat rate" which means the shop charges you a set rate for the labor, no matter how long it takes the technician to do the work. This is a problem that leads to negligence, and a total, and complete lack of attention to detail. In this scenario the Technician gets paid the same amount if it takes him 4 hours to do the work, or 14 hours to do the work. To me, this is about as stupid as it gets when it comes to concepts where detail & procedure are paramount. What works for an oil change does not work for an IMS Solution installation. I have had technicians brag to me that they can do 3 IMS Retrofits in a week, but instead of a pat on the back from me, I went ballistic on them explaining that I wasn't impressed. This happens all the time, and at Rennsport one tech walked up to me and said he has done 5 Retrofits in a single week, with one of those being an IMS Solution.This isn't a race to see who can do so many jobs, its about who can do the work without complications, or complaints, and represent the technology in the best way possible. Certified Installers must follow a particular protocol that starts with pre- qualification, and ends with bearing registration.

3- A big challenge with a non Certified Installer is pre- qualification, and honesty in regard to this. Often if a shop is doing a pre- qualification (just going through the motions) and they do find an issue, like debris laden oil, a chunk of timing chain, high cam deviations and etc, the Technician will pretend they didn't see it. Why? Well, if they are working on a commission based pay schedule and they "down" the job, then their paycheck can suffer greatly at the end of the week, just because they did the right thing when no one was looking. In most cases this isn't the case. The technician has nothing to lose, as it isn't his shop, isn't his name on the product, and it isn't his job to do more than rip a bearing out, and throw another one in. Certified Installers must document these processes, and they have a direct line to me, for those awkward situations where they don't know which call to make. I am circled in a couple of times per month by Certified Installers to help them make the decision regarding what should be done, pass or fail. A worst case scenario is a shop that doesn't have someone overlooking the work being done, and allow a technician to try and carry out multiple Retrofit jobs just to generate money for everyone involved. If your shop brags about how many of these they have done, then they are likely the worst shop you can choose. A first time, novice will usually be the better choice, as they pay attention, and take their time based on what we've seen. With numbers of retrofits increasing at a shop, the complacency sets in, and with that its treated just like a "brake job".

4- Certified Installers have no second chances. To error may be human, and to forgive may be divine, but neither of these are my policies when managing the Certified Installer program, which I do FOR FREE to keep my invention at the top of the food chain, and without complaint, or failure.

Now, with that said I will give you the direct facts concerning how Certified Installers are chosen, and what they have to "pay", and why:

Everyone thinks that this is motivated by money. That would make it like everything else in your life, right down to having to pass through a damn gift shop after going to a Museum. Everywhere we look someone wants to get in our wallets, or see how deep our pockets are. Its modern society, and its getting worse.
Trust that the Certified Installer program isn't about money. This was implemented as demanded by me 7+ years ago, after my original negotiation requirement was for ALL IMS Solution installations be carried out only by Certified Installers, with non- installers not even having access to the parts. In retrospect my demand of this was a little crazy, but I like crazy stuff, and I'm a little crazy myself.
If I would have stuck to my original mandate things would not be where they are today, and the IMS Poll here on RL would not have nearly as many satisfied members listed there. When I saw those poll numbers for the IMS Solution from here on RL, I was floored!

I receive emails all the time from shops wanting to become Certified. I explain that they should attend one of my hands on classes, and get to know me, as this is the first step in the invitation process. Yes, I said "invitation". No amount of money buys this Certification, and no amount of clout in the industry does, either If someone comes to my world, and I see them assemble an engine, and I like what I see, then we discuss having them start the Certification process. At that time a small amount of money is collected as a one time fee to process their training, written test, and practical application evaluation, all of which are part of the process. An ad in a Porsche magazine for one month costs more than this amount of money they are charged, and there are no recurring fees.
That said, if I feel that someone is only coming to the class to brown- nose, or try to impress me to get an invitation, they don't get the invite. Why? Its simple, I want good people that are naturally talented, and think like I do to have this Certification, and be working with something that I spent more than 10 years of my life inventing, developing, and perfecting. Sometimes I can hand a wrench to someone in a class and know in 3 seconds if the guy is real or not. No, I am not judging people, I am qualifying them to represent something that is very important to me. I do not take that lightly. Attending a class does not guarantee anyone, for anything. They may walk away with an invite, or they may get it 6 months later, after I consider them further. Most never get this, or another shop in their area is already Certified, not allowing them the opportunity.

So, if a shop is making up excuses about why they are not Certified its either because they didn't attend a class, were not invited, or thought the fee (albeit small) was too much.

Some shops will not carry out the Solution due to mark up of the parts. The IMS Solution takes them longer, and thats one part of it that many do not like over the retrofit. The percentage of component markup is a second negative for them. Put simply, if they have a technician that can jam out 2,3 or 4 (or even 5!!) Retrofits per week, then they will prefer to do this over deviating the plan to install the Solution. Yes, all too often considerations about what to use are made by percentage of markup, time to process, and "breaking the routine" rather than whats the best way to go for the long term. They will often make up reasons that seem genuine to justify installing a product other than the Solution. IMS Solution Certified Installers are quite the opposite. These people are bound to the IMS Solution as a singular product to use in 100% of their retrofits. This is part of the Code Of Conduct. Since I started the program, we followed suite, and since 2011 the only retrofit product we have installed here is the IMS Solution. Next month is our semi- annual IMS Solution Clinic, and we have most of our schedule built already for this. The Clinic is a time where all of our focus is on the IMS Solution, and allows us to schedule all these jobs per year in succession, for total focus.

There are more IMS Solution Certified Installers now than ever before. In some regions (like Nor- Cal!) we have yet to have a Certified Installer. Speaking of Nor- Cal, we have not seen many shops that really live up to the program's expectations. We did invite two, but both did not accept, as they said they were already so busy that they could not keep up with the demand for their work. As more shops attend training, we will add them to the invitation list, and start the evaluation. Sometimes it takes a year to execute the Certification process, so it is not quick. The goal is to have a Certified Installer in each PCA region, selected by their abilities, and ethics.

To help other shops and DIY efforts I did complete a video last month that covered an entire IMS Solution pre- qualification, and retrofit using the IMS Solution. Not sure when the guys at IMS Solution will release this, or how, or where... I did this for free, so don't bitch, moan, or complain if it isn't perfect!

I'll close with 4 points:
1- A DIY install is likely done more comprehensively than one done at a shop where speed and volume of work is everything.
2- If a shop doesn't want to use the most superior product on the market, there's likely a different reason for this other than what you are being told.
3- The Certified Installer program isn't about having a shop on every corner, or even in every state to do this work!
3- The IMS Solution Certified Installer program works, and with this in place the IMS Solution has never had a single reported failure.

So, there ya have it. Back behind the green curtain I go......

DBJoe996

Good to hear from you Jake! (and yeah, I read all that and appreciate the explanation)

az968gpw

Amen! That's the way to maintain product integrity.

steam_mill

I am finally fulfilling a lifelong dream to own a Porsche 911. I am trying to do everything to make this a positive experience. I found a low mileage 996, with service records at a Porsche dealership. Car is being ppi'ed today to include borescope at an independent (no the IMS Solution installer). I really want the IMS Solution. I live in a 10 million person metropolis, 90 minutes from the US border. Would you believe that there was only 1 certified installer? He is no longer certified. Realistically, he is my only choice. A certified installer is 350 miles away. I am awaiting ppi results and based on that will be booking the earliest appointment (Oct 29) for the week long IMS upgrade. Wish me luck!

NuttyProfessor

My head is spinning. Does this count as a Raby reality check that I've read so much about on this forum? I've followed this man's work for years, way back to the VW aircooled days. Guess most of the guys just hear about his most recent work on the M96/M97 engines, but you gotta see what this man has done for the aircooled people. This kind of read makes me reassured that I made the right decision to have the IMS solution installed and fortunately, I was able to watch a lot of the process unfold as long as I didn't get in the way. I didn't have a clue about the extent of pre-qualification steps going into this procedure, but the certified installer for my car went through each step verbatim. The agreement was very clear to me that my car could be disqualified if it didn't meet certain standards throughout the pre-qual process. I learned alot about oil analysis, ECU evaluation, cam deviations, cylinder bore inspection, manometer readings and the single row bearing seal problems among other things. After reading this and seeing mine installed, I now truly understand why he insists on such a stringent program. No one wants anything to jeopardize their investment. We're all stakeholders in this... the product and what stands behind it is the BEST it could be to ensure positive results from every IMS solution install.

docmirror

I think the 6 year warranty is an arbitrary number because no mfg or vendor wants to deal with warranty work more than 3,4,5,6, years. Some auto mfg have extended their warranty out for 10 years as a market competitive argument. As for how they degrade, when a car is driven short distances, and not allowed to warm up, and only goes 3-4000 miles per year, acids in the oil and fuel degrade over time and can etch the bearing or the race. It only takes a very tiny imperfection in the race of a bearing for it to eventually self destruct. If you've ever heard a car drive past you with a whine noise, that's a wheel bearing that is going bad. It may not fail in 10 or 100 miles, but within about 2000 miles it's going to give up.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the 6 year time frame. If you take drives that are long enough to fully warm the car, and get it out on the road and moving, then do your oil changes correctly, I suspect the dual row LN bearing will last much longer than 6 years, but I will still not warranty it for longer than that. The 75,000 miles is a hard stop replacement based on the type of bearing, working conditions, and environment. if you drive 4000/year, the bearing will 'wear out' in 18.75 years.