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New member here to this forum, but not new to forums. I realize this topic has been covered before generally speaking, but hoping to get some more information and opinions tailored to my inquiry.
I have a 2011 mustang gt that is very well prepared which I have had for over five years now. I run the car in DE/TT2 and instruct with NASA. I have had an itch for years that I just can't seem to shake to own a pcar. I have a trailer and newer truck which i tow the car with, so it would not need to be a daily driver or even a comfy street car by any means. I've seen some 996 c2's for sale, some of which are already pretty well prepared for the track and it has me thinking... I am considering picking one up as a street car and maybe take it out to the track if my mustang is out of commission or just once in a while to change it up. I had a 99 miata with some modifications and had a blast on the track with a momentum car that didnt have a ton of power, but would prefer something a little more powerful and also better for the street. Plus, the Porsche looks great when done up just right.
I am in North Texas, so it obviously gets pretty hot down here. I am a pretty capable driver, and I do push the cars on the track hard. Is it reasonable to think that a 996 c2 could handle such track duty in this region once in a while, and not be riddled with issues or need to be at the point where it's no longer street-able?
The mustang is fully gutted, no a/c or any electronics, roll bar, halo seat, massive cooling upgrades, aero, etc etc. I am not trying to go down that road again, but miss having a car I can take to work once in a while on a nice day or somewhere with the fiance on the weekends. I would want to add a roll bar, some fixed back seats, 6pt harnesses and the appropriate modifications to make it a great dual duty car, if such a thing even exists. I am also considering an e46 or e92 m3. Open to other suggestions as well, of course.
This group seems to be intelligent and offer great insight, and I am hoping to be more active on here. I have also considered just buying a 996TT and keeping it solely as a street car if the above idea is just not feasible. I get tired of the intensive track prep, towing the car down, and all of that. I definitely did enjoy driving the miata to the track and back home.
Motor is dodgy and expensive to fix.
Many mods are needed for regular track work and they aren't cheap
Parts are expensive compared to BMW
My opinion, the e46 m3 is the better choice. The brakes are dog****, but with a big brake kit, some decent fluid and making sure the rear subframe is solid, the e46 M3 is quick, cheap to run, and similar in performance.
And having just disassembled an S54 motor, they are super simple compared to the M96
Motor is dodgy and expensive to fix.
Many mods are needed for regular track work and they aren't cheap
Parts are expensive compared to BMW
My opinion, the e46 m3 is the better choice. The brakes are dog****, but with a big brake kit, some decent fluid and making sure the rear subframe is solid, the e46 M3 is quick, cheap to run, and similar in performance.
And having just disassembled an S54 motor, they are super simple compared to the M96
I had a feeling this would be the case. I have actually owned a handful of e36 and e46 m3's, and have seen them plenty around the track. Oddly enough, I haven't seen too many Porsches, and specifically only a couple 996s at the track. I suppose what you've stated above could be why. Thanks for your input.
The main reason I was thinking 996TT if whatever i pick up is solely a street car is for more power since it's so flat and boring down here. I am from upstate NY originally, so I do miss the back roads, elevation and hills. Also was thinking of a 12-14 CTSV for street duty.
I suppose I knew already from past experience that it doesn't usually work to have a street car that can be capable on the track to be pushed hard.
The more I think of it, the 996 c2 with some goodies is probably still a joy to drive on the street. I have yet to drive any Porsche, maybe I will look into that first.
My 2 cents...I have an '02 C2 with a 3.8 build that turns ~350 hp, with 6sp and M030. Really fantastic street and autocross car for me. Had a 3.6 with H&R and B8 suspension previously and felt a little down on torque and oomph compared to E46 M3. The 3.8 build can definitely keep up, though. I love how the 996 handles! However, if you can find a sweet, well-maintained 996 Turbo 6sp, you'll never regret it. I recently have seen $25-28k for a nice C2 setup and $45-50k for the TT cars with comprehensive service histories that need nothing. Test drive a couple of each and have fun on the comparo.
Last edited by hatchetf15; 02-14-2018 at 02:34 PM.
Reason: speling ��
There are a bunch of threads on here about using the 996 platform for DE events and some hard core racing. It really all depends on the setup. Deep sump oil pan with improved baffles, full flow filtration, magnetic drain plug and so on are considered necessary. Accusump is also almost a must. They can be driven hard and fast, but if you want to get more than one session out of it, it needs to be prepared right. They are great cars for the money, but be prepared to spend $$$ to get it to track level.
Around here (Chicagoland), there are plenty of Porsches on the track. If anything, they might be the most common when a I head up to Road America, or head to autobahn country club.
The E46 M3 my buddy runs on the track has already had the Diff replaced, the transmission replaced, the rod bearings redone, the Vanos rebuilt, and he ended up refreshing the suspension as well. The E30 might be a lot cheaper and more reliable.
Its true about the 996 - the engine isn’t suitable for hard core tracking, although some have done so successfully. Many have not. But if you are tracking occasionally, I don’t see a problem with it, as long as you address the oil delivery issues (sucking air in turns and aeration), and as long as you keep coolant temps in check in Texas. The 996 is a great handling car, especially once you learn how to trail brake. Otherwise, with stock street camber/caster/alignment settings, it tends to push into the corners.
Last edited by Mike Murphy; 02-09-2018 at 06:21 PM.
Around here (Chicagoland), there are plenty of Porsche’s. If anything, they might be the most common when a I head up to Road America, or head to autobahn country club.
The E46 M3 my buddy runs on the track has already had the Diff replaced, the transmission replaced, the rod bearings redone, the Vanos rebuilt, and he ended up refreshing the suspension as well. The E30 might be a lot cheaper and more reliable.
Its true about the 996 - the engine isn’t suitable for hard core tracking, although some have done so successfully. Many have not. But if you are tracking occasionally, I don’t see a problem with it, as long as you address the oil delivery issues (sucking air in turns and aeration), and as long as you keep coolant temps in check in Texas. The 996 is a great handling car, especially once you learn how to trail brake. Otherwise, with stock street camber/caster/alignment settings, it tends to push into the corners.
E46 definitely has some issues, but the parts are cheap.
there are e46 M3 trannies all over craigslist and ebay for like $1000. Engines are $3500. The motors are dead simple...sure the vanos has issues but they are pretty well known and pretty easy to rectify. Any of these used cars with 60k+ plus miles will likely need some suspension work. And again, parts seem to be cheaper for BMW.
This is what i would tell a friend if he asked. I have driven tons of cars on the street and on the track. No Pcar until I picked one up yesterday in Dallas and drove it back to Austin. Wife approved the 3rd German option in the garage a couple weeks ago.
Verdict?.
I will ALWAYS own a Porsche and more specifically, a 911, . F***ing brilliant. Full stop. Took it out to the Hill Country this morning and ripped along some beautiful scenery for 2 hours straight. Ferraris are fun. I love the GT-R. The wife's Mercedes can be a good time if I throw it in Sport mode. But, if you want an experience, an event, a goddamn explosion behind your head....and a visceral, mute the radio right now type moment while you melt the road...get in a 911 right now.
The main reason I was thinking 996TT if whatever i pick up is solely a street car is for more power since it's so flat and boring down here. I am from upstate NY originally, so I do miss the back roads, elevation and hills. Also was thinking of a 12-14 CTSV for street duty.
I suppose I knew already from past experience that it doesn't usually work to have a street car that can be capable on the track to be pushed hard.
The more I think of it, the 996 c2 with some goodies is probably still a joy to drive on the street. I have yet to drive any Porsche, maybe I will look into that first.
Good idea, driving a C2 then a Turbo will let you appreciate the former & then evaluate the turbo power & added brakes/suspension/width of the latter. C2s can be great fun, mine is very comfortable at speed - the reliable steering feedback & stability of the chassis lends itself to highway cruising. A turbo will give you both a platform for big power and even stock it'll have a torque shove that a C2 just won't approach. The turbo engines are durable enough to take some track days without serious risk, overrevs aren't as big of a deal there either. But a stock C2 will still eagerly cruise at a buck twenty if you have the space. Or a buck fifty. It's capable, it just doesn't have the >0.5g acceleration of the TT. You'd probably learn to appreciate either platform though, it's kind of hard to lose with such a well-designed chassis.
I just picked up my 99Mk1 996. I’ve had a GT3 and a Turbo. I know guys are going to slam me here, but I had a member of my local FSR PCA club track a 2000 model for better part of 6 years without issues. He even did double duty with another club member when that member’s car was down. I LOVE this new car and I would love to track it. I have a Porsche 944 racecar and will likely stick with that for instructing when I need a car for those duties, but I can’t imagine a few events hurting them.
Sure, motors are expensive. Sure, they go boom. I’ve Seen Mustangs eat those gear boxes, and BMWs, I’ve got two. They’re boring compared to the Porsche. There simply is no replacement.
I suspect most of the people who say you can’t track a 996 have never done so themselves.
There’s a lot of “fact” bouncing around the Internet echo chamber, people repeating what they’ve read online, reading only things that reinforce their opinions and biases.
The other observation I’d make is that a lot (not saying all) of the people I know that are serious about racing, don’t burn a lot of time on Internet forums.
If you want to know if the 996 can be raced, go hang out at some shops where they actually build and maintain race cars, go to events and talk to drivers, that kind of thing. I think you’ll get more usable info that way.
Based on the info you posted, you don’t seem afraid to spend money to get a good track car. It looks and sounds like you know what it takes to make a decent track car.
if you have the coin, buy a GT3 and don’t sweat it. Your intended use is what they were made for. Otherwise you can definitely prep and campaign any car.
GT3 = 3 to 4x cost of C2
TT = 2 to 3x cost of C2
Personally, nothing I’ve ever driven comes close to the overall “experience” of any 911. They aren’t the quickest, fastest, most comfortable, best handling car, but the overall experience of driving them is the best, hands down. It’s probably down to personal preference.
If you haven’t driven one yet, you really should before you spend much time wondering if they can be raced.
I should probably add that I fully intend to use my 996 as both a nice day driver and a DE car, so my bias is that they absolutely can be used like this. I’ve driven and raced both BMWs and VWs from mild street versions to massively prepped race cars, and I’ll take a 996 over any of them.
It always amazes me how many people on this forum hate on the 996...on a 996 forum!
You are a track guy so clearly you have the $$$ to do the car hobby. Get a 996, enjoy it, do the maintenance, and don't worry about it. If it blows up rebuild it. It's a great car.
BMW? Yeah from the pragmatic viewpoint it works well....but who turns and looks back at their BMW after parking it and really get's butterflies in their stomach? At the end of the day it's just a German Buick. (That said I have been whipped on the track by a few track prepped BMWs, but hey at least I maintained my dignity). You can lower it and put a bunch of stickers on it but you still have a BMW. I've had the same feelings about Miatas. Sure they can be fun on the track but at the end of the day it's a Miata, yawn.
I agree w/ the above post that bang for your buck you can't beat the C2.
Just my $0.02. I'm sure I stepped on some toes there.
02-09-2018, 03:55 PM
996 c2 as a street car (w/ infrequent track duty)
