View Poll Results: I have a perfectly good 1999 Carrera 4 and an awesome new small-block V8. Should I...
Do the needful and drop that bish into the 996. YOLO.
13
24.07%
Sell the LT1 in the Corvette, drop the new motor in, and have even more fun at the drag strip.
13
24.07%
Palletize and store the new motor and let time decide between option 1 and option 2
3
5.56%
Sell the motor and do something stupid with the money. Like find and buy back my 986.
25
46.30%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll
V8 Swap into a perfectly good 996?
08-14-2017, 01:00 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
V8 Swap into a perfectly good 996?
This is a potentially VERY long story; I'll add details below instead of junking up the OP. Here goes:
I have come into possession of what I believe to be an exceptionally built small-block V8 built to what I'd call streetable race spec. Because the gentleman who built it does not have a computer nor a phone that takes pictures, I won't have the full specs until I can get up the mountain and drag it from his shop to my garage.
Assuming it's the right size and the right weight (all I know is that it's a 4-bolt main 350 (originally) V8), I am seriously contemplating pulling the M96 out of my '99 and replacing it with the new one. Odd wiring issues aside, I love the 996 and the M96 is the one thing that could cause me to have to part ways with the car.
So, wouldja?
I have come into possession of what I believe to be an exceptionally built small-block V8 built to what I'd call streetable race spec. Because the gentleman who built it does not have a computer nor a phone that takes pictures, I won't have the full specs until I can get up the mountain and drag it from his shop to my garage.
Assuming it's the right size and the right weight (all I know is that it's a 4-bolt main 350 (originally) V8), I am seriously contemplating pulling the M96 out of my '99 and replacing it with the new one. Odd wiring issues aside, I love the 996 and the M96 is the one thing that could cause me to have to part ways with the car.
So, wouldja?
08-14-2017, 01:06 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Why the hell not? It would be a fun project and would give you a whole different driving experience. Not sure if he's on here but White Out from the MI based forum I'm on did a V8 swap a long time ago and said he really enjoyed the car with it's new heart.
I don't know that I would do it to a perfectly good 996 though. Would probably rather find a roller with a detonated motor or something as the transplant.
I don't know that I would do it to a perfectly good 996 though. Would probably rather find a roller with a detonated motor or something as the transplant.
08-14-2017, 01:07 PM
#3
Race Director
This is a potentially VERY long story; I'll add details below instead of junking up the OP. Here goes:
I have come into possession of what I believe to be an exceptionally built small-block V8 built to what I'd call streetable race spec. Because the gentleman who built it does not have a computer nor a phone that takes pictures, I won't have the full specs until I can get up the mountain and drag it from his shop to my garage.
Assuming it's the right size and the right weight (all I know is that it's a 4-bolt main 350 (originally) V8), I am seriously contemplating pulling the M96 out of my '99 and replacing it with the new one. Odd wiring issues aside, I love the 996 and the M96 is the one thing that could cause me to have to part ways with the car.
So, wouldja?
I have come into possession of what I believe to be an exceptionally built small-block V8 built to what I'd call streetable race spec. Because the gentleman who built it does not have a computer nor a phone that takes pictures, I won't have the full specs until I can get up the mountain and drag it from his shop to my garage.
Assuming it's the right size and the right weight (all I know is that it's a 4-bolt main 350 (originally) V8), I am seriously contemplating pulling the M96 out of my '99 and replacing it with the new one. Odd wiring issues aside, I love the 996 and the M96 is the one thing that could cause me to have to part ways with the car.
So, wouldja?
The builder has no computer or smart phone so very likely the engine is of the cast iron block (and heads) variety and thus heavy.
I note too you live in CA so good luck getting the car smogged/registered unless you are planning on using the car strictly off road.
08-14-2017, 02:05 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
This is a potentially VERY long story; I'll add details below instead of junking up the OP. Here goes:
I have come into possession of what I believe to be an exceptionally built small-block V8 built to what I'd call streetable race spec. Because the gentleman who built it does not have a computer nor a phone that takes pictures, I won't have the full specs until I can get up the mountain and drag it from his shop to my garage.
Assuming it's the right size and the right weight (all I know is that it's a 4-bolt main 350 (originally) V8), I am seriously contemplating pulling the M96 out of my '99 and replacing it with the new one. Odd wiring issues aside, I love the 996 and the M96 is the one thing that could cause me to have to part ways with the car.
So, wouldja?
I have come into possession of what I believe to be an exceptionally built small-block V8 built to what I'd call streetable race spec. Because the gentleman who built it does not have a computer nor a phone that takes pictures, I won't have the full specs until I can get up the mountain and drag it from his shop to my garage.
Assuming it's the right size and the right weight (all I know is that it's a 4-bolt main 350 (originally) V8), I am seriously contemplating pulling the M96 out of my '99 and replacing it with the new one. Odd wiring issues aside, I love the 996 and the M96 is the one thing that could cause me to have to part ways with the car.
So, wouldja?
08-14-2017, 02:07 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Macsters emissions point would be my main issue. I know in TX I could get away with it once the car reaches a certain age, but things are different on the Left Coast. Having said that, I would absolutely consider it in a situation where I had an potentially significant engine issue.
08-14-2017, 03:20 PM
#7
Smog-Smog-Smog. Have you guys seen his location in his avatar? Maybe he wants a track monster? If not, sell it or put it in the Vette and sell the old Vette engine. However, since he must be made out of money...i.e. So. Cal. maybe just store it for the future.
Trending Topics
08-14-2017, 03:57 PM
#8
Race Director
Thread Starter
I'm aware of the emissions issue, and a weigh-in will of course be the first item on the docket.
Assuming it's not absurdly heavy (it's a small-block V8, not a Chrysler 440), I'm willing to deal with the smog hassles. An iron small-block weighs in at just 48 pounds more than an aluminum LSx - but the heads and some of the ancillaries can double the number to about a hundred pounds. That's not an insurmountable number, but I'd certainly want to make sure the suspension is able to handle the weight and the change in power delivery.
As far as registration and emissions worries, this would likely be a "Home Made Specially Constructed or Kit Vehicles" registration (like you'd pursue with a salvage vehicle that gets rebuilt using a Smyth ute kit). Otherwise, it would be (nearly) impossible to get the car registered for highway use.
You don't need to be made of money to bolt a lump of metal into something that already has a different lump of metal bolted into it, but I would want to do the job properly. The revenue generated from selling the healthy M969 would certainly help take a bite out of hardware costs.
The new motor may be built around an ancient block, but it's a modern build with electronic ignition and timing control (I wouldn't want to wind up sitting on the side of the road trying to suck crud out of a carburetor jet)...
I am by no means convinced this is the right course of action - I need to see the motor, spend a day talking to the guy about the motor, get it home, pull off the sheet metal and ogle, and - if it doesn't come with sheets - get it dynoed. I'm definitely not going to install anything unless I know it runs and I know what kind of power to expect from it.
Plan E: Find someone selling a roller speedboat, drop it in, and play on the lake with it for a couple of years...and THEN decide whether to refresh it and stuff it into one of the cars.
At this point, pretty much all I know for certain is I have to find some way to use it - it will be an obsession until it's installed and running in SOMETHING. I've been dreaming intermittently for about 10 years about what I'd do if I won one of them...so this is a good problem to have.
Assuming it's not absurdly heavy (it's a small-block V8, not a Chrysler 440), I'm willing to deal with the smog hassles. An iron small-block weighs in at just 48 pounds more than an aluminum LSx - but the heads and some of the ancillaries can double the number to about a hundred pounds. That's not an insurmountable number, but I'd certainly want to make sure the suspension is able to handle the weight and the change in power delivery.
As far as registration and emissions worries, this would likely be a "Home Made Specially Constructed or Kit Vehicles" registration (like you'd pursue with a salvage vehicle that gets rebuilt using a Smyth ute kit). Otherwise, it would be (nearly) impossible to get the car registered for highway use.
You don't need to be made of money to bolt a lump of metal into something that already has a different lump of metal bolted into it, but I would want to do the job properly. The revenue generated from selling the healthy M969 would certainly help take a bite out of hardware costs.
The new motor may be built around an ancient block, but it's a modern build with electronic ignition and timing control (I wouldn't want to wind up sitting on the side of the road trying to suck crud out of a carburetor jet)...
I am by no means convinced this is the right course of action - I need to see the motor, spend a day talking to the guy about the motor, get it home, pull off the sheet metal and ogle, and - if it doesn't come with sheets - get it dynoed. I'm definitely not going to install anything unless I know it runs and I know what kind of power to expect from it.
Plan E: Find someone selling a roller speedboat, drop it in, and play on the lake with it for a couple of years...and THEN decide whether to refresh it and stuff it into one of the cars.
At this point, pretty much all I know for certain is I have to find some way to use it - it will be an obsession until it's installed and running in SOMETHING. I've been dreaming intermittently for about 10 years about what I'd do if I won one of them...so this is a good problem to have.
Last edited by 5CHN3LL; 08-14-2017 at 04:14 PM.
08-14-2017, 03:59 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
The engine could be a 1970s to 1990s tradition iron engine, so I'd wait to see what it is.
I like the idea of LS swaps, but not for a perfectly good running 996...
That said, if you are looking for more power and want a fun project, that's different. By the time you are finished with the swap, your car would be faster and you could sell the flat-6 to someone else who could use it.
I like the idea of LS swaps, but not for a perfectly good running 996...
That said, if you are looking for more power and want a fun project, that's different. By the time you are finished with the swap, your car would be faster and you could sell the flat-6 to someone else who could use it.
08-14-2017, 04:00 PM
#10
If it's not an LSx mill, but is instead an earlier generation mill, the answer is "No." The reasons that quickly come to mind are:
1. Weight differential due to the cast iron block and heads.
2. Resale value. Should you choose to sell the car in the future, the potential buyers' pool just got a lot shallower due to lack of desirability of an older generation engine swap. The LSx swapped 996 cars seem to be valued around the 30k range. It's probably unlikely that you'll get near that for an older gen sbc swap.
3. The following is based on foggy recollection of research that I did when I was first interested in doing a swap on my 99' cab. In California, you can do engine swaps, but the engine production date for post 1975 model vehicle swaps must be as new as the model vehicle year of the vehicle that's to be swapped into, and of course all emission controls for that year must be in place. You will have to see a DMV referee for an inspection to okay the final swap.
4. Your late C4 is an LT1 or LT4 car. You currently have an opti-spark ignition, aluminum heads and reverse flow cooling design. The older gen sbc has a distributor mounted to the rear of the intake. My uneducated guess is that you'd have to swap the cam and timing chain cover (I could be wrong) to run an opti. You'd also need to put your lt f.i. intake on the engine, which would alter the builder's more than likely tried-and-true parts combination for maximum output and driveability. And I'm really not even certain that the water jackets on the f.i. intake will line up properly with the earlier design heads. I just don't know. But then again, it's based on speculation on which variation of sbc it is. My guess is that a 12k dollar sbc will come with great internal components, as well as warmed over aftermarket aluminum heads.
Anyway, congrats on the win. I'd sell the engine. If you got 10k out of it, a combination of Renegade parts and Whiteout's methods and parts preferences for the swap would probably leave you with little to no out of pocket pain. Your 996 engine would more than cover the LSx mill costs. I think the 996/LSx combination would be a grin-inducing creature every time you mashed the fun pedal.
1. Weight differential due to the cast iron block and heads.
2. Resale value. Should you choose to sell the car in the future, the potential buyers' pool just got a lot shallower due to lack of desirability of an older generation engine swap. The LSx swapped 996 cars seem to be valued around the 30k range. It's probably unlikely that you'll get near that for an older gen sbc swap.
3. The following is based on foggy recollection of research that I did when I was first interested in doing a swap on my 99' cab. In California, you can do engine swaps, but the engine production date for post 1975 model vehicle swaps must be as new as the model vehicle year of the vehicle that's to be swapped into, and of course all emission controls for that year must be in place. You will have to see a DMV referee for an inspection to okay the final swap.
4. Your late C4 is an LT1 or LT4 car. You currently have an opti-spark ignition, aluminum heads and reverse flow cooling design. The older gen sbc has a distributor mounted to the rear of the intake. My uneducated guess is that you'd have to swap the cam and timing chain cover (I could be wrong) to run an opti. You'd also need to put your lt f.i. intake on the engine, which would alter the builder's more than likely tried-and-true parts combination for maximum output and driveability. And I'm really not even certain that the water jackets on the f.i. intake will line up properly with the earlier design heads. I just don't know. But then again, it's based on speculation on which variation of sbc it is. My guess is that a 12k dollar sbc will come with great internal components, as well as warmed over aftermarket aluminum heads.
Anyway, congrats on the win. I'd sell the engine. If you got 10k out of it, a combination of Renegade parts and Whiteout's methods and parts preferences for the swap would probably leave you with little to no out of pocket pain. Your 996 engine would more than cover the LSx mill costs. I think the 996/LSx combination would be a grin-inducing creature every time you mashed the fun pedal.
08-14-2017, 04:10 PM
#11
What's the scope of effort needed to throw it in the C4 vette? That chassis would probably handle the new power plant better both in terms of power delivery & weight distribution.
The idea to sell it to fund a RH LS-swap is intriguing, same goes for a voluntary FSI rebuild on your m96 that could come in as low as ~$15k? if the engine is healthy going in.
Lots of options, that's why I voted to wait & decide once options are researched.
The idea to sell it to fund a RH LS-swap is intriguing, same goes for a voluntary FSI rebuild on your m96 that could come in as low as ~$15k? if the engine is healthy going in.
Lots of options, that's why I voted to wait & decide once options are researched.
08-14-2017, 04:24 PM
#12
Race Director
Thread Starter
Tony, there are a number of other considerations. If the built will take boost well, the 'Vette makes more sense. Once I know the numbers, it'll be easier to know what is/isn't appropriate.
The idea of an older block doesn't frighten me especially...the tech in my Corvette is 20 years older than what's going to come installed on the new engine.
If it just doesn't make sense to try to use in either car, I can accept that, but from my admittedly brief conversation, it doesn't sound like either would be a problem. He was already making a mental list (new oil pan, headers) when I mentioned the Corvette possibility.
Just selling the engine is of course an option, but the more I find out about the engine and the builder, the less inclined I am to dump it. I'll share that info when I have it.
The idea of an older block doesn't frighten me especially...the tech in my Corvette is 20 years older than what's going to come installed on the new engine.
If it just doesn't make sense to try to use in either car, I can accept that, but from my admittedly brief conversation, it doesn't sound like either would be a problem. He was already making a mental list (new oil pan, headers) when I mentioned the Corvette possibility.
Just selling the engine is of course an option, but the more I find out about the engine and the builder, the less inclined I am to dump it. I'll share that info when I have it.
08-14-2017, 05:52 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
I'd lean toward "sell it and do something stupid," unless you don't really want another car. The proceeds would likely be enough for a great start on a street/autocross/DE 986, which sounds to me like Big Stupid Fun.
If you don't want to add another car, dropping it into the Vette sounds promising, also. Seems like you're less likely to upset the weight balance of a Corvette ... it's a lot closer to a straight horsepower transfusion. Selling the LT1 would offset some other costs like a brake upgrade, which I assume you might need after adding lots of HP. And maybe a nice new set of used tires ;-)
At this point, though, more data would be a good thing.
If you don't want to add another car, dropping it into the Vette sounds promising, also. Seems like you're less likely to upset the weight balance of a Corvette ... it's a lot closer to a straight horsepower transfusion. Selling the LT1 would offset some other costs like a brake upgrade, which I assume you might need after adding lots of HP. And maybe a nice new set of used tires ;-)
At this point, though, more data would be a good thing.
08-14-2017, 06:26 PM
#14
Race Director
Thread Starter
Rejiggering some travel plans so I can (hopefully) pick up and stash the goods on our way to Tahoe next weekend.*
*Where we'll be squatting in some vacant house in the South Tahoe Keys. It's not every week you get to vacation in a place described as "the most environmentally damaging intrusion on the lakeshore in Lake Tahoe's human history."
*Where we'll be squatting in some vacant house in the South Tahoe Keys. It's not every week you get to vacation in a place described as "the most environmentally damaging intrusion on the lakeshore in Lake Tahoe's human history."
