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10-14-2003, 05:12 AM
#16
Originally posted by brian J
...love the swiss beer especially Erdinger and Feldschlossen....
...love the swiss beer especially Erdinger and Feldschlossen....
10-14-2003, 06:54 AM
#18
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Swissman
Congratulations on your new car.
I think you have the right attitude about the first gear issue, don't worry about it - it may never happen
Your power/torque curves are impressive. With that huge torque figure, you must be running serious overboost in the mid range 1.3 bar ? - can you share the exact spec of the engine, does it have flame rings ? what type ? what kind of rods ? etc
Thanks
Congratulations on your new car.
I think you have the right attitude about the first gear issue, don't worry about it - it may never happen
Your power/torque curves are impressive. With that huge torque figure, you must be running serious overboost in the mid range 1.3 bar ? - can you share the exact spec of the engine, does it have flame rings ? what type ? what kind of rods ? etc
Thanks
10-14-2003, 07:15 AM
#19
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Originally posted by TB993tt
Swissman
Congratulations on your new car.
I think you have the right attitude about the first gear issue, don't worry about it - it may never happen
Your power/torque curves are impressive. With that huge torque figure, you must be running serious overboost in the mid range 1.3 bar ? - can you share the exact spec of the engine, does it have flame rings ? what type ? what kind of rods ? etc
Thanks
Swissman
Congratulations on your new car.
I think you have the right attitude about the first gear issue, don't worry about it - it may never happen
Your power/torque curves are impressive. With that huge torque figure, you must be running serious overboost in the mid range 1.3 bar ? - can you share the exact spec of the engine, does it have flame rings ? what type ? what kind of rods ? etc
Thanks
Engine change - 3,6 Biturbo 300kW (408 HP) motor type: M64/60
stage 1 article NR. 30 11 01 660 achievement optimization by reprogramming of engine electronics, air cleaner element, high speed catalyst, final muffler, oil cooler kit, inclusive power measurements Max. achievement: 331 KW (450 HP) @ 6200 RPM max. torque: 620 NM @ 4100 RPM Max. speed: approx.. 298 km/h max. acceleration: approx.. 4,3 seconds of 0-100 km/h Price exkl. VAT inclusive VAT base price SFr. 13'200.00 SFr. 14'203.20 assembly SFr. 650,00 SFr. 699,40 complete price SFr. 13'850.00 SFr. 14'902.60
Engine change - 3,6 Biturbo 300kW (408 HP) motor type: M64/60
stage of 2 articles NR. 30 11 02 660 stage 1 additionally: special turbochargers, inclusive power measurements Max. achievement: 358 KW (488 HP) @ 6450 RPM max. torque: 660 NM @ 5000 RPM Max. speed: approx.. 309 km/h max. acceleration: approx.. 4,1 seconds of 0-100 km/h Price exkl. VAT inclusive VAT base price SFr. 18'280.00 SFr. 19'669.28 assembly SFr. 1'600.00 SFr. 1'721.60 complete price SFr. 19'880.00 SFr. 21'390.90
Engine change - 3,6 Biturbo 300kW (408 HP) motor type: M64/60
stage 3 article NR. 30 11 03 660 stage 2 additionally: special turbochargers, sport cam shafts, modified gasoline pressure control valve, sucking in line, inclusive power measurements Max. achievement: 373 KW (508 HP) @ 6500 RPM max. torque: 690 NM @ 5000 RPM Max. speed: approx.. 318 km/h max. acceleration: approx.. 3,9 seconds of 0-100 km/h Price exkl. VAT inclusive VAT base price SFr. 22'800.00 SFr. 24'532.80 assembly SFr. 5'280.00 SFr. 5'681.28 complete price SFr. 28'080.00 SFr. 30'214.10
Engine change - 3,6 Biturbo 300kW (408 HP) motor type: M64/60
stage of 4 articles NR. 30 11 04 660 stage 3 additionally: special turbochargers, mechanical valve gear, larger intercooler, sport clutch, inclusive power measurements Max. achievement: 396 KW (538 HP) @ 6500 RPM max. torque: 720 NM @ 5000 RPM Max. speed: approx.. 327 km/h max. acceleration: approx.. 3,7 seconds of 0-100 km/h Price exkl. VAT inclusive VAT base price SFr. 35'059.00 SFr. 37'723.48 assembly SFr. 6'400.00 SFr. 6'886.40 complete price SFr. 41'459.00 SFr. 44'609.90
10-14-2003, 07:17 AM
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10-14-2003, 07:42 AM
#21
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Swissman
Are you reading that 0.8 bar from the digital stock boost guage - I would guess yes because to get the sort of torque you are experiencing needs a lot more than 0.8 bar. Is your's the stage 2 ?
Are you reading that 0.8 bar from the digital stock boost guage - I would guess yes because to get the sort of torque you are experiencing needs a lot more than 0.8 bar. Is your's the stage 2 ?
10-14-2003, 11:08 AM
#22
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Hum.. in fact i read what i see to the max, 0,8 bar, perhaps it should be more but having the stage 3 with specials camshafts and big turbos means more air for the same original pressure.
10-14-2003, 12:01 PM
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So at Stage 3, you have K24 Turbos, sport cams, a modified ECU with a 5 bar fuel regulator, and a sport exhaust setup. OK, so the translation does not come across well for this one. What is "sucking in line" referenced on the Stage 3 setup? I am not sure but I think I need on of these....
Anyway, I agree with TB993TT, your ECU must be turned up to at least 1.1 to 1.2 BAR to achieve these figures. Your gauge in the dash does not read above .8. You need a boost guage to see what your actual boost, and overboost is.
Anyway, I agree with TB993TT, your ECU must be turned up to at least 1.1 to 1.2 BAR to achieve these figures. Your gauge in the dash does not read above .8. You need a boost guage to see what your actual boost, and overboost is.
10-14-2003, 01:40 PM
#24
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Swissman
To run reliable 766NM torque, Flywheel needs the following:
1) around 1.3 bar boost at peak torque
2) twin plugs
3) flame ring head sealing.
4) stronger rods
If your car does not have the above then there are a few possible explanations:
1) the dyno used is inaccurate
2) tied in to 1) above- your dyno is right and the one used for my motor was inaccurate meaning my engine would show 850 -900NM on your dyno
3) You are indeed making this torque but your engine is:
a) running at or very close to detonation and is knocking plenty - No twin plugs
b) Spitting plenty of flames and oil out of the head seal - No flame rings
c) Your rods will be heading towards distortion
4) I have been totally ripped off by paying for an overly specced motor when I could have got the same torque at lot chaeper by going to Sportec.
I hope it is no 1 or 4 above because if not your options will be to alter the ECU programming or do 2 to 4 at the top
To run reliable 766NM torque, Flywheel needs the following:
1) around 1.3 bar boost at peak torque
2) twin plugs
3) flame ring head sealing.
4) stronger rods
If your car does not have the above then there are a few possible explanations:
1) the dyno used is inaccurate
2) tied in to 1) above- your dyno is right and the one used for my motor was inaccurate meaning my engine would show 850 -900NM on your dyno
3) You are indeed making this torque but your engine is:
a) running at or very close to detonation and is knocking plenty - No twin plugs
b) Spitting plenty of flames and oil out of the head seal - No flame rings
c) Your rods will be heading towards distortion
4) I have been totally ripped off by paying for an overly specced motor when I could have got the same torque at lot chaeper by going to Sportec.
I hope it is no 1 or 4 above because if not your options will be to alter the ECU programming or do 2 to 4 at the top
10-14-2003, 04:16 PM
#25
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by TB993tt
[) Your rods will be heading towards distortion
4) I have been totally ripped off by paying for an overly specced motor when I could have got the same torque at lot chaeper by going to Sportec.
A lot cheaper by going to Sportec
, stage 3 cost 20000€ and my car is still perfectly running his 50000km since this modification, yes i also have a special cluch with air assistance command (2 fingers are enought to use the cluch). So what did you paid if Sportec is cheap ????????????
[) Your rods will be heading towards distortion
4) I have been totally ripped off by paying for an overly specced motor when I could have got the same torque at lot chaeper by going to Sportec.
A lot cheaper by going to Sportec
, stage 3 cost 20000€ and my car is still perfectly running his 50000km since this modification, yes i also have a special cluch with air assistance command (2 fingers are enought to use the cluch). So what did you paid if Sportec is cheap ????????????
10-15-2003, 05:52 AM
#27
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Swissman
Great photo of the Maxxed out speedo - this suggests you are running the 500+ hp, and impressively, holding the power to (or close to) 7000rpm
Nearly double that 
It is not so much the money. I am questioning that if it is possible to have a reliable 766NM with only the mods on your engine then my engine's specification is a massive overkill. I still think there is something wrong per my previous post - I would be interested to hear Sportec's view
Great photo of the Maxxed out speedo
- this suggests you are running the 500+ hp, and impressively, holding the power to (or close to) 7000rpm
Originally posted by Swissman
So what did you paid if Sportec is cheap ????????????
So what did you paid if Sportec is cheap ????????????
It is not so much the money. I am questioning that if it is possible to have a reliable 766NM with only the mods on your engine then my engine's specification is a massive overkill. I still think there is something wrong per my previous post - I would be interested to hear Sportec's view
10-15-2003, 08:32 AM
#28
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Yes well I had not understood , sorry English is so far away from school for me,
I ask to Altavista to translated your text . and all was clear.
Relating to Sportec, this company seems to have an excellent reputation in Switzerland, which I can say to you is that my mechanic tested the car and found it perfect on the level of the facility of use of the engine and the big power, he is an independant specialiezed? in Porsche and Donkervort. Also the fact that when I bought the car there was an another purchaser who was there with a mechanic from Porsche who controled the car during 2 hours, and which finally after control the purchaser wanted it absolutely, but I was in first
If you need more information about Sportec you should send them an email
I ask to Altavista to translated your text .
and all was clear.Relating to Sportec, this company seems to have an excellent reputation in Switzerland, which I can say to you is that my mechanic tested the car and found it perfect on the level of the facility of use of the engine and the big power, he is an independant specialiezed? in Porsche and Donkervort. Also the fact that when I bought the car there was an another purchaser who was there with a mechanic from Porsche who controled the car during 2 hours, and which finally after control the purchaser wanted it absolutely, but I was in first
If you need more information about Sportec you should send them an email
10-15-2003, 09:11 AM
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And what to think about that guy with only Turbo K24 and Xede obtening more than 500HP
http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/viewtopi...39&forum=15&19
http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/viewtopi...39&forum=15&19
10-16-2003, 07:32 AM
#30
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Swissman
I think you are missing my point here. The guy you have reffered to is Aussie Q, see a similiar thread here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...threadid=86788
I know that 500+hp can be had with a few bolt on parts, there is no debate over this.
The fastest 500hp cars will be the ones which have the biggest area under their power curves and this comes from getting your 500hp as low down the rev range as possible and holding it to the maximum revs.
For illustration, my motor makes 500ps by 5250rpm and holds over it to 6800rpm.
An engine with the Sportec spec you have typically will have around 470ps at 5000rpm and rise steadily to its 6000-6500rpm peak of 510 or whatever.
To get the 500hp at 5250 means you have to make the motronic overboost at these lower revs to around 1.3 bar, this makes the big low end torque circa 750Nm (which at 4500 represents 480ps) and hence the low end power. As far as I knew, to maintain reliability at these boost levels needed the items I listed before:
1) twin plugs to stop detonation
2) stronger rods because of the extreme pressures
3) flame rings to keep the pressures in the heads
If your motor does not have these items then running 1.3bar at 4500rpm will probably cause some problems.
I have just taken a second look at your power curve and notice that once the peak torque has been reached at around 4500 the ECU must back right off the boost because by around 5300 the power is down to 460ps which is probably about 0.65bar before climbing again to reach its 500+ peack at 6000rpm which will be around 0.95bar - It may be this big reduction in boost after peak torque which is protecting the engine and stopping the heads from leaking. It would be interesting to see your boost curve or for you to observe an accurate boost guage during a full power run ?
I think you are missing my point here. The guy you have reffered to is Aussie Q, see a similiar thread here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...threadid=86788
I know that 500+hp can be had with a few bolt on parts, there is no debate over this.
The fastest 500hp cars will be the ones which have the biggest area under their power curves and this comes from getting your 500hp as low down the rev range as possible and holding it to the maximum revs.
For illustration, my motor makes 500ps by 5250rpm and holds over it to 6800rpm.
An engine with the Sportec spec you have typically will have around 470ps at 5000rpm and rise steadily to its 6000-6500rpm peak of 510 or whatever.
To get the 500hp at 5250 means you have to make the motronic overboost at these lower revs to around 1.3 bar, this makes the big low end torque circa 750Nm (which at 4500 represents 480ps) and hence the low end power. As far as I knew, to maintain reliability at these boost levels needed the items I listed before:
1) twin plugs to stop detonation
2) stronger rods because of the extreme pressures
3) flame rings to keep the pressures in the heads
If your motor does not have these items then running 1.3bar at 4500rpm will probably cause some problems.
I have just taken a second look at your power curve and notice that once the peak torque has been reached at around 4500 the ECU must back right off the boost because by around 5300 the power is down to 460ps which is probably about 0.65bar before climbing again to reach its 500+ peack at 6000rpm which will be around 0.95bar - It may be this big reduction in boost after peak torque which is protecting the engine and stopping the heads from leaking. It would be interesting to see your boost curve or for you to observe an accurate boost guage during a full power run ?
Last edited by TB993tt; 10-16-2003 at 07:47 AM.