I finally got my programmable management installed on the 993TT
09-04-2003, 01:04 PM
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I finally got my programmable management installed on the 993TT
ok guys...
you will remember I fitted my k24's to my 993.
Tonight we finished stage two - programmable management
Stage 2:
I had XEDE programable management fitted to the car.
The factory Motronic was retained, the Xede interfaced with it.
The 993 was put on the dyno, and tuned in real time
It came with base maps for the 993 TT
The tuner can then tune it to suit the individual car.
Unlike normal "interceptor" units, the Xede is capable of mapping the output signals - for greater control
It has 4 switchable maps - So you can run different setups
....and you can even give the valet a 100HP 993TT to park LOL
BIG dyno sheet HERE
OK, these are dyno dynamics figures, so won't mean a whole lot to you guys.
I will convert it to flywheel HP - so it means something
I had a peak gain of 60kw = 80HP
If you prefer: power gained @ wheels = power gained at flywheel:
-- my car makes 480 HP
If you prefer a % loss method
-- my car makes 520 HP
Either way, I am stoked
cheers
Q
you will remember I fitted my k24's to my 993.
Tonight we finished stage two - programmable management
Stage 2:
I had XEDE programable management fitted to the car.
The factory Motronic was retained, the Xede interfaced with it.
The 993 was put on the dyno, and tuned in real time
It came with base maps for the 993 TT
The tuner can then tune it to suit the individual car.
Unlike normal "interceptor" units, the Xede is capable of mapping the output signals - for greater control
It has 4 switchable maps - So you can run different setups
....and you can even give the valet a 100HP 993TT to park LOL
BIG dyno sheet HERE
OK, these are dyno dynamics figures, so won't mean a whole lot to you guys.
I will convert it to flywheel HP - so it means something
I had a peak gain of 60kw = 80HP
If you prefer: power gained @ wheels = power gained at flywheel:
-- my car makes 480 HP
If you prefer a % loss method
-- my car makes 520 HP
Either way, I am stoked
cheers
Q
Last edited by Q; 09-04-2003 at 01:51 PM.
09-04-2003, 01:24 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Q,
Sounds interesting. So your power mods are simply the K24s and this Xede unit? Stock ECU? You must need a serious Xede expert to do the programming. Can you give any details such as the cost of the Xede unit, and the cost of the tuning? How much time was spent on the dyno?
A slightly off topic question that you may be able to help with... on a 2-wheel dyno, you must disconnect the driveshaft, right? Does any power get directed at the front (but disconnected) drive? How does the viscous coupler know that it shouldn't be spinning that FWD coupler? It seems with the rears spinning and the fronts stationary, the coupler would be trying like mad to direct power to the front, and you would get a false low power reading at the rear. Do I sound confused? Thanks.
Sounds interesting. So your power mods are simply the K24s and this Xede unit? Stock ECU? You must need a serious Xede expert to do the programming. Can you give any details such as the cost of the Xede unit, and the cost of the tuning? How much time was spent on the dyno?
A slightly off topic question that you may be able to help with... on a 2-wheel dyno, you must disconnect the driveshaft, right? Does any power get directed at the front (but disconnected) drive? How does the viscous coupler know that it shouldn't be spinning that FWD coupler? It seems with the rears spinning and the fronts stationary, the coupler would be trying like mad to direct power to the front, and you would get a false low power reading at the rear. Do I sound confused? Thanks.
09-04-2003, 01:40 PM
#3
Q,
don't you need to supply the intercooler with sufficient air (like when the car is driving) to tune the car? I am just asking because I have read somewhere that turbo cars must never be put on a dyno without sufficient air supply to the intercooler. perhaps it is just not to be seen in the picture?!
don't you need to supply the intercooler with sufficient air (like when the car is driving) to tune the car? I am just asking because I have read somewhere that turbo cars must never be put on a dyno without sufficient air supply to the intercooler. perhaps it is just not to be seen in the picture?!
09-04-2003, 01:42 PM
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Steve
I have:
- K&N pod filter
- Millie Miglia mufflers
- K24's
- stock ECU + Xede
Here is the tuning GURU that did my car
He says any tuner with a laptop,and a good knowledge of Porsches will tune them easily - as the base maps are already done.
How is this for a small world.....
The US Xede distributor is in California.
There is a coupler just in front of the gearbox.
Undo the two bolts, and it physically disconnects the viscous coupling and differential.
Instant GT2
I have:
- K&N pod filter
- Millie Miglia mufflers
- K24's
- stock ECU + Xede
Here is the tuning GURU that did my car
He says any tuner with a laptop,and a good knowledge of Porsches will tune them easily - as the base maps are already done.
How is this for a small world.....
The US Xede distributor is in California.
There is a coupler just in front of the gearbox.
Undo the two bolts, and it physically disconnects the viscous coupling and differential.
Instant GT2
09-04-2003, 01:44 PM
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Autobahn
The pic does not show it.... but there is a dirty great fan in front
and an extraction system behind.
The airflow in that room was quite amazing !
The pic does not show it.... but there is a dirty great fan in front
and an extraction system behind.
The airflow in that room was quite amazing !
09-04-2003, 02:43 PM
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Awesome job, Q!
I like the idea of several different ECU maps, especially the 100hp valet map.
My ECU was tuned by Gunther Mandle (sp?), who's a very respected ECU tuner and is behind the ECU mods of many of the large European Porsche tuners, including Gemballa, Sportec, TTP and others. He modded my ECU with a drive-and-tune process during which I drove around town and on the highway for about a half hour while he played with his laptop. I was pretty happy afterwards.
It's not like you haven't already showered us with amazing photography, but, what the heck, post some more pics please, Q!
I like the idea of several different ECU maps, especially the 100hp valet map.
My ECU was tuned by Gunther Mandle (sp?), who's a very respected ECU tuner and is behind the ECU mods of many of the large European Porsche tuners, including Gemballa, Sportec, TTP and others. He modded my ECU with a drive-and-tune process during which I drove around town and on the highway for about a half hour while he played with his laptop. I was pretty happy afterwards.
It's not like you haven't already showered us with amazing photography, but, what the heck, post some more pics please, Q!
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09-04-2003, 03:02 PM
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Q
Fantastic and Congratulations!
Were you ever able to pinpoint the power limiting that was happening early on in the upgrade process? Was it fuel grade/temps as you thought might be the issue?
I am wrestling a similar issue with similar upgrades. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Fantastic and Congratulations!
Were you ever able to pinpoint the power limiting that was happening early on in the upgrade process? Was it fuel grade/temps as you thought might be the issue?
I am wrestling a similar issue with similar upgrades. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
09-05-2003, 10:03 AM
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Q.
Fantastic post and pics
Your stock power curve looks a bit disasterous after 5700rpm.
I would concurr that you have about 520hp. It is interesting to see the lag on the new turbos; at 3500rpm you have about 168hp (flywheel) and 240hp (flywheel) at 4000rpm. For comparison my dyno sheet shows 275PS @ 3500 and 425PS @4000rpm but this is with twin plug, different cams and a lot of dyno R&D -maybe these low figures are a result of the rolling road v's engine dyno ?
I estimate about 534lb/ft of torque (flywheel) at 5000rpm is this right ?
What sort of boost curve are you running to get these figures ?
Is there any overboost facility with the Xede - does it allow overboost when you plant the throttle in the mid range ?
Again excellent job and thanks for sharing
Fantastic post and pics
Your stock power curve looks a bit disasterous after 5700rpm.
I would concurr that you have about 520hp. It is interesting to see the lag on the new turbos; at 3500rpm you have about 168hp (flywheel) and 240hp (flywheel) at 4000rpm. For comparison my dyno sheet shows 275PS @ 3500 and 425PS @4000rpm but this is with twin plug, different cams and a lot of dyno R&D -maybe these low figures are a result of the rolling road v's engine dyno ?
I estimate about 534lb/ft of torque (flywheel) at 5000rpm is this right ?
What sort of boost curve are you running to get these figures ?
Is there any overboost facility with the Xede - does it allow overboost when you plant the throttle in the mid range ?
Again excellent job and thanks for sharing
09-06-2003, 12:27 AM
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John H
LOL ...ok, I will dig out some more photos tonight
KRA993tt
Thanks
Yes we were able to pin point it. It is the aggressiveness of the factory overboost facility and our cr@p fuel
superyellowfly
It feels a little nervous, not in an unbalanced way, in an earlier 911 way.
The steering is light and alive.
The gearbox feels a little notchier.
The major negative is: punching it out of a corner.
As as you approach full boost, it wants to turn you into the corner [and spin you around]
poorb0yw
let ua all know how it goes
johnfm
the disadvantage of bigger turbos - lag
No doubt cat bypasses would see that rectified.
TB993tt
Yes standard curve was very ordinary ...but it still ran 12.5@ 110mph ...so it was on par with other cars.
Dyno dynamics tend to read particularly low - in the order of 30% drive train loss. So comparing isn't valid.
I ran the figures past a friend that does a lot of work with Dyno Jet dyno results.
He felt my max power would be in the order of 440 PS @ 6500, which considering your setup sounds "about" right
What do you make as maximum power ? [Q prepares to become envious]
I will try and source a boost curve printout
Yes, the Xede still utilises the factory overboost
However.....
it was too agressive with our high temps and cr@p fuel.
It would spike the boost - and then knock.
We elected to use the Xede to drive the [factory] boost controller.
The Xede enabled us to map the behaviour of the overboost.
I checked the dyno log. Dyno room temp was 30 C on the day we were tuning
superyellowfly
The factory boost controller is very good.
We just have the Xede controlling it rather than the Motronic.
LOL ...ok, I will dig out some more photos tonight
KRA993tt
Thanks
Yes we were able to pin point it. It is the aggressiveness of the factory overboost facility and our cr@p fuel
superyellowfly
It feels a little nervous, not in an unbalanced way, in an earlier 911 way.
The steering is light and alive.
The gearbox feels a little notchier.
The major negative is: punching it out of a corner.
As as you approach full boost, it wants to turn you into the corner [and spin you around]
poorb0yw
let ua all know how it goes
johnfm
the disadvantage of bigger turbos - lag
No doubt cat bypasses would see that rectified.
TB993tt
Yes standard curve was very ordinary ...but it still ran 12.5@ 110mph ...so it was on par with other cars.
Dyno dynamics tend to read particularly low - in the order of 30% drive train loss. So comparing isn't valid.
I ran the figures past a friend that does a lot of work with Dyno Jet dyno results.
He felt my max power would be in the order of 440 PS @ 6500, which considering your setup sounds "about" right
What do you make as maximum power ? [Q prepares to become envious
]I will try and source a boost curve printout
Yes, the Xede still utilises the factory overboost
However.....
it was too agressive with our high temps and cr@p fuel.
It would spike the boost - and then knock.
We elected to use the Xede to drive the [factory] boost controller.
The Xede enabled us to map the behaviour of the overboost.
I checked the dyno log. Dyno room temp was 30 C on the day we were tuning
As an interesting side note, the Motronic does not know how much boost it uses.
It knows the airflow, timing, etc etc etc......but not boost pressure.
We installed a MAP sensor and nominated a max boost pressure - as a fail safe.
It knows the airflow, timing, etc etc etc......but not boost pressure.
We installed a MAP sensor and nominated a max boost pressure - as a fail safe.
The factory boost controller is very good.
We just have the Xede controlling it rather than the Motronic.
