Turbo Specific PSS-9s
09-04-2003, 01:44 PM
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Turbo Specific PSS-9s
Heard yesterday that Bilstein is coming out with PSS-9s that are specifically valved and sprung for the 993TT, anybody have any info?
09-04-2003, 03:32 PM
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Just called Bilstein, and they have no new development projects in the works for any 993 models. They do have a development project at the moment for the 996TT. Maybe whoever you spoke to got the info mixed up.
I wish it was true. I plan to up the spring rates when I get time. Would have been nice to buy them off the shelf.
I wish it was true. I plan to up the spring rates when I get time. Would have been nice to buy them off the shelf.
09-04-2003, 11:41 PM
#3
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Bob is right; there is only one PSS-9 kit for the 993 cars. and no further 993 developments are underway.
All of the 996 stuff is though,....2WD, AWD, and TT.
All of the 996 stuff is though,....2WD, AWD, and TT.
09-11-2003, 02:43 PM
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993 tt pss-9
If my $.02 is worth anything, Bilstein has no plans for any further R&D
on any of the current production or past production Porsches.
Cheers.
Bryan
on any of the current production or past production Porsches.
Cheers.
Bryan
09-11-2003, 09:35 PM
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Call me underexperienced, but I've got the regular PSS-9's on my 993TT and they are sweet both on and off the track.
Of course, I wouldn't mind something stiffer.... and faster....and....
Of course, I wouldn't mind something stiffer.... and faster....and....
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09-12-2003, 12:55 AM
#9
RL Technical Advisor
Bob:
FWIW,....installing 400/800 springs on the PSS-9 is not optimal for the valving, even at #1.
Further, the PSS-9 uses 60mm springs, not 2.25" or 2.5". Using larger OD ones require larger hats, separators, and perches,....
As Kim suggested, if you want something appreciably better*, and a totally engineered system, see your friendly Moton Dealer.
*In another league.
FWIW,....installing 400/800 springs on the PSS-9 is not optimal for the valving, even at #1.
Further, the PSS-9 uses 60mm springs, not 2.25" or 2.5". Using larger OD ones require larger hats, separators, and perches,....
As Kim suggested, if you want something appreciably better*, and a totally engineered system, see your friendly Moton Dealer.
*In another league.
09-12-2003, 11:00 AM
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Steve, I was somewhat kidding and was just throwing out numbers.
If however you can not increase the spring rates 15% or so on the PSS9s with the internal valving, then they are junk in my opinion. Also, if someone has PSS9s, they may not want to spend another $4-5K to move to Motons for a little change in stiffness. A balanced spring retrofit would cost in the $$hundreds including 60mm components, springs, tenders, etc. from Eibach, H&R, etc.
Yes the Motons are unreal, lusted after, and will cause an instant woody at their sight, but they are not for most people. Most folks have trouble with the single adjustable PSS9s. Have most drivers try to diagnose and correct for separate settings on compression and rebound. Now throw in more settings for compression rates at different speeds. And for optimal performance, these should be adjusted for differnet tracks. Yes in the future I am sure that I will go down this path, but I plan to try some different setups on the PSS9s first.
If however you can not increase the spring rates 15% or so on the PSS9s with the internal valving, then they are junk in my opinion. Also, if someone has PSS9s, they may not want to spend another $4-5K to move to Motons for a little change in stiffness. A balanced spring retrofit would cost in the $$hundreds including 60mm components, springs, tenders, etc. from Eibach, H&R, etc.
Yes the Motons are unreal, lusted after, and will cause an instant woody at their sight, but they are not for most people. Most folks have trouble with the single adjustable PSS9s. Have most drivers try to diagnose and correct for separate settings on compression and rebound. Now throw in more settings for compression rates at different speeds. And for optimal performance, these should be adjusted for differnet tracks. Yes in the future I am sure that I will go down this path, but I plan to try some different setups on the PSS9s first.
09-12-2003, 04:27 PM
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steve,
any opinions on ohlins?
i know someone that has good ties with the factory... he keeps pushing them to me...
i know they're air craft quality (lol...ironically, made by lowest bidder) any experience?
any opinions on ohlins?
i know someone that has good ties with the factory... he keeps pushing them to me...
i know they're air craft quality (lol...ironically, made by lowest bidder) any experience?
09-17-2003, 01:42 AM
#12
Nothing wrong with Ohlins.
Can your contact get me a set, cheap? All I need is separate adjustment for compression, rebound and pre-load ...
I have Ohlins on my superbike. They're pretty much the unquestioned best for race teams. Some folks question their products for consumer applications. Me and Mr Ducati and few million other bike riders seem to be able to put years on Ohlins. I'd be happy to risk trying it on my wide body 993 ...
Can your contact get me a set, cheap? All I need is separate adjustment for compression, rebound and pre-load ...
I have Ohlins on my superbike. They're pretty much the unquestioned best for race teams. Some folks question their products for consumer applications. Me and Mr Ducati and few million other bike riders seem to be able to put years on Ohlins. I'd be happy to risk trying it on my wide body 993 ...
09-17-2003, 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by TUNER
If my $.02 is worth anything, Bilstein has no plans for any further R&D
on any of the current production or past production Porsches.
Cheers.
If my $.02 is worth anything, Bilstein has no plans for any further R&D
on any of the current production or past production Porsches.
Cheers.
09-17-2003, 09:15 PM
#14
Spring rates
I know what you mean Bob. The spring rates on my PSS-9s I think are way too soft 
. I have mine set at 1, the rear perches were replaced with the aluminium ones from Steve W. and finally had the rear kinematic toe dialled in to perfection all because I kept feeling some 'wallow' in the car. And it's still there albeit to a small degree. My old 964 C4 had H&Rs on it when I bought it and yes it is a different suspension but I couldn't help but make the comparison that the C4 felt that much more planted (I had both of them together for 6 months before finally selling the C4).
Anyone know what the original spring rates are on the PSS-9s? If you do go through with upping your spring rates Bob, please keep us posted (or PM me) on your efforts, your results and sources of supply (as you have done before )
Quote:
[QUOTE]Yes the Motons are unreal, lusted after, and will cause an instant woody at their sight[QUOTE]
cheers,
Kris
'97 993tt
'89 535I
. I have mine set at 1, the rear perches were replaced with the aluminium ones from Steve W. and finally had the rear kinematic toe dialled in to perfection all because I kept feeling some 'wallow' in the car. And it's still there albeit to a small degree. My old 964 C4 had H&Rs on it when I bought it and yes it is a different suspension but I couldn't help but make the comparison that the C4 felt that much more planted (I had both of them together for 6 months before finally selling the C4).Anyone know what the original spring rates are on the PSS-9s? If you do go through with upping your spring rates Bob, please keep us posted (or PM me) on your efforts, your results and sources of supply (as you have done before
) Quote:
[QUOTE]Yes the Motons are unreal, lusted after, and will cause an instant woody at their sight[QUOTE]
cheers,
Kris
'97 993tt
'89 535I
09-18-2003, 02:56 AM
#15
RL Technical Advisor
Bob:
I think characterizing the PSS-9's as "junk" is a bit harsh,...
You must remember that Bilstein designed and configured these as street, not race shocks and they were intended to offer a decent ride quality & handling over a very wide range of road & track conditions. I think they meet "Mission requirements" very well,....
I have the shock dyno results here for the PSS-9's and they are a well matched combination. These use 250/225 front and 400/685 (main/tender) springs.
Given that there is no such thing as "one-size-fits-all" in suspension applications, PSS-9's might not be the ticket for everyone and this is why we have choices.
Moton Clubsports are a less-expensive version of their first-class racing shocks and frankly, not that much more $$$ than PSS-9's. These DO have a valving range to handle a firm street-to-race spring package; something the PSS-9's do not have.
When I configure, install or sell a Moton package, I do pre-set the dampers to a good starting setting and perform extensive followups with a client to make sure that these are setup and adjusted correctly to take full advantage of what they can do. Typically, Motons are worth 3-5 seconds a lap over anything else, once they are adjusted correctly.
Ohlins are also excellent shocks but they are a lot trickier to setup and optimize. Their valving stack is narrower in range, and not as well developed for Porsche cars as some others.
I certainly do not wish to discourage you from trying something, but suspension configuration and setup is not as simple as it might appear.
I think characterizing the PSS-9's as "junk" is a bit harsh,...
You must remember that Bilstein designed and configured these as street, not race shocks and they were intended to offer a decent ride quality & handling over a very wide range of road & track conditions. I think they meet "Mission requirements" very well,....
I have the shock dyno results here for the PSS-9's and they are a well matched combination. These use 250/225 front and 400/685 (main/tender) springs.
Given that there is no such thing as "one-size-fits-all" in suspension applications, PSS-9's might not be the ticket for everyone and this is why we have choices.
Moton Clubsports are a less-expensive version of their first-class racing shocks and frankly, not that much more $$$ than PSS-9's. These DO have a valving range to handle a firm street-to-race spring package; something the PSS-9's do not have.
When I configure, install or sell a Moton package, I do pre-set the dampers to a good starting setting and perform extensive followups with a client to make sure that these are setup and adjusted correctly to take full advantage of what they can do. Typically, Motons are worth 3-5 seconds a lap over anything else, once they are adjusted correctly.
Ohlins are also excellent shocks but they are a lot trickier to setup and optimize. Their valving stack is narrower in range, and not as well developed for Porsche cars as some others.
I certainly do not wish to discourage you from trying something, but suspension configuration and setup is not as simple as it might appear.