Mike J

From Kevin:

I need to get a flow chart for going for all these oil leakers..

If you have oil dripping out of the bearing housings, it will point to>>
a) Incorrect oil filter. Mahle, Bosch, Mann are all incorrect. Porsche Genuine filter must be installed on the engine.
b) Filter installed to tight
c) Someone broke into the garage and overfilled the oil. It seems like no one admits this until the finger pointing starts.

2) If you have installed rebuilt turbochargers the rebuild CAN be the culprit. If the shop has honed/bored the hot side seal bore, you have a high chance of failure since the installed ring gap exceeds .007" Oil will pass freely thru the gap and puddle in the turbine housing>smoke on startup and drip constantly. This will usually start as a small weap and progress to a constant smoke show.

Mike J

Kevin, do you think we also would need the bent scavenge lines as well as the check valves for that extra protection ( to prevent oil from coming from the engine sump back to the turbos)?

It sounds to me like both solutions working in tandem offers the maximum protection.

Kevin

3) A LEAKDOWN test is required on chronic leakers.. Results between 10% and greater will give one constant smoking issues. I have found that once someone has numbers over 16% oil is exiting the turbine side seal at a rate of quart per 500 miles with wet bearing housings and smoke.

The reason is that we have combustion blowbye that increases the crankcase pressure to a extent that the scavenged "return" oil from the turbochargers is restricted.

Kevin

Mike it's a judgement call, what is the turbine side seal gap? You need to build these turbochargers with oversized sealing ring and gap them at .002" If not you are going to have a constant smoke show at startup.

1) Check the oil filter, Replace if to tight
2) Oil level at FIRST mark
3) Verify turbo rebuild specs.
4) Install check valve kit
5) Chronic oil leakers require a leakdown and then fitting of scavenge lines.

Mike J

1) Check the oil filter, Replace if to tight - Will do that tomorrow night.
2) Oil level at FIRST mark - the owner check the oil - its just at the tip of the dipstick.
3) Verify turbo rebuild specs. - I have no information here, the owner would have to go back to the shop and ask where the turbo's were rebuilt, and how. Good question.
4) Install check valve kit - I suggested this already. :-)
5) Chronic oil leakers require a leakdown and then fitting of scavenge lines. The car has less than 30,000 miles, and we will do this as a last resort

Given the smoking happened just after an oil change, it seems to point to that. I will get back once I see the car tomorrow.

But what I think I am hearing is that you do not need to update the scavenge lines unless you are having issues...

Cheers,

Mike

Kevin

The Leakdown is a MUST DO when you have a car with chronic "oil and smoke" issues. My definition of Chronic is Car going into service center to refix the issue that was suppose to be fixed the first time. Because it is NOT uncommon to be looking at the 3rd and 4th time with owners wanting to push the car over a cliff. The odds of valve guide failure and/or bent exhaust valve from a missed shift is GREATER once the car comes back in the 2nd and third time.

Texas993

Kevin, any ETA on those oil scavenge lines?

The new oil lines, check valve, and turbo rebuild by Kevin fixed my issues. But still want the scavenge lines for full protection!

Mike J

Guess what was found?? So here is the question - what are the chances that putting this filter smoked (pardon the pun) the turbos right after the change and the turbos would not have needed rebuilding except for this goof-up?

Do not forget we are talking about a car with less than 30,000 miles.

The question is what proof exists that there is a cause-effect happening here, other than observation? Is there enough to argue for a refund? How about going to court?

Cheers,

Mike

geolab

cause effect is somewhat here:

http://www.pcarworkshop.com/images/3...0395geolab.pdf

Mike J

Perfect, thanks George! I missed that one!

Cheers

Mike

badabing

Are you saying that the bad oil filter "ruined" the turbos and then they needed rebuilding?

Or

That the wrong oil filter caused the smoking which was misdiagnosed as failed turbos.

IMHO, based on my personal experience with my TT with virtually the same exact mileage and problem (solved!), I believe the latter is what actually occurred.

I think the latter will be easier to prove in court as well.

Mike J

To be clear, this is not my car - its a friends. So how he approaches it is his choice. I doubt if this will get legal if the shop does the right thing.

One way is to contact the sub-contractor that rebuilt the turbos to see if they indeed really needed to be rebuilt.

However, a lot of this is hard to prove, and in a court I bet will not fly.

However, I am leaning towards on the first choice a bit, since oil was clearly getting into turbos that were fine before the oil change, and that leak/coking could easily cause an issue, thus resulting in a rebuild - which could also be part of the second one, that the smoke was misdiagnosed.

cheers,

Mike

Texas993

Mike, I'll bet you are right.

I think an overfill or two messed up my turbos requiring a rebuild. Not sure when they occurred. But the car performed considerably better post re-build and I am glad that it was done.

It could also be that the turbos were 10 years old and the seal just wore out!

No HTwo O

[QUOTE=Mike J;9114842However, a lot of this is hard to prove, and in a court I bet will not fly. [/QUOTE]


You forgot "e$pen$ive".

Mike J

We have a small claims court system here for things like this - you can DIY, and they usually side on the consumer. However, it takes time, and you have to be able to argue the case.

So, I guess it does cost $$ due to the time, but you can recover $$$.