Swapped my TT for an NA993
01-12-2011, 10:15 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Swapped my TT for an NA993
Not swapped as in, you have mine and I'll have yours, but swapped keys for a good old fashioned blast around the windy roads.
Macca (R'ler) stayed for a night and we decided it would be a good idea to go for a drive. My car is stock everything apart from HD's really. His has got more after market parts on it that I can name. It's got more carbon in it than an Airbus 380. Awesome car and it's been lightened quite dramatically.
It is so nimble and light. You can really feel it in the corners. It would blitz my car as far as the handeling goe's with me driving. He's done a lot too his car though and it should be good. And good it definatley is. Just point the thing and shoot and it will get you there.
It's got the Dach's X pipe and other things and **** it sounds amazing.
Wouldn't it be great to have all that his cars got but with the power and torque of the TT. I'm sure it's possible, but financially these days, in this climate it won't happen for me.
It was the most fun I have had in years in a car.
Macca (R'ler) stayed for a night and we decided it would be a good idea to go for a drive. My car is stock everything apart from HD's really. His has got more after market parts on it that I can name. It's got more carbon in it than an Airbus 380. Awesome car and it's been lightened quite dramatically.
It is so nimble and light. You can really feel it in the corners. It would blitz my car as far as the handeling goe's with me driving. He's done a lot too his car though and it should be good. And good it definatley is. Just point the thing and shoot and it will get you there.
It's got the Dach's X pipe and other things and **** it sounds amazing.
Wouldn't it be great to have all that his cars got but with the power and torque of the TT. I'm sure it's possible, but financially these days, in this climate it won't happen for me.
It was the most fun I have had in years in a car.
Last edited by 993MAN; 01-12-2011 at 11:06 PM.
01-12-2011, 11:04 PM
#3
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cool license plates. the weight and all wheel drive makes our cars a little porkamatic and noticeably sluggish in corners vis a vis a lightened 993na. still the aesthetics of the turbo are perfect to me. im glad you enjoyed your swap
01-12-2011, 11:32 PM
#5
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Graham-- Two great machines. Gorgeous.
Macca's vision, creativity, & attention to detail have created an amazing 993.
Speaking of CF, did you install that new shifter from RLer Q? Even if not, please share some interior shots.
That says it all! Thanks for sharing, & taking us on your fun run.
Macca's vision, creativity, & attention to detail have created an amazing 993.
Speaking of CF, did you install that new shifter from RLer Q? Even if not, please share some interior shots.
That says it all! Thanks for sharing, & taking us on your fun run.
01-13-2011, 12:47 AM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
Graham-- Two great machines. Gorgeous.
Macca's vision, creativity, & attention to detail have created an amazing 993.
Speaking of CF, did you install that new shifter from RLer Q? Even if not, please share some interior shots.
That says it all! Thanks for sharing, & taking us on your fun run.
Macca's vision, creativity, & attention to detail have created an amazing 993.
Speaking of CF, did you install that new shifter from RLer Q? Even if not, please share some interior shots.
That says it all! Thanks for sharing, & taking us on your fun run.
I did install the carbon but the hand brake lever was a, ummmm, disaster.
I wasn't told I had to remove the old leather first to allow the carbon to slide on. Instead I got a rubber mallet and tapped it on. It got so tight it wouldn't come off. End result was a mess and a totally buggered peice of carbon. The tray went on OK though!
It only cost me $200NZ to have the lever re leathered.
One thing this swap has done is make me realise I need to do some mods when the money permits. It was very very cool to drive.
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01-13-2011, 03:19 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Hi All,
Id like to chip in if I may.
Curvelover - thank you for your kind feedback. Its appreciated!
As to the question of what I thought of my time driving 993MANs 993Turbo (1 hour = 45 miles all twisty windy fast back country roads :-))
We must remeber we are comparing a very considerably modified 993C2 manual NA to a stock (minus upgraded shocks) 993TT. Its probably more like comparing a 993RS to a 993TT....
I was very impressed with the power of the turbo. Primarily the torque and the lack of lag. I had spent time in a 996TT but never in a 993TT. The torque was alot of fun punching out of corners. A real point and squirt machine and reminded me in part of the torque available with my e39 M5 but in a much lighter and sportier package. Most excellent indeed. My C2 is making 293bhp and 259lbft. Its had some work to get it to that point (never opened the engine tho). The turbo engine delivers power on a higher plane!
Handling I found the package very stable and neutral. It did however lack some intimacy of communiation and I suspect the limit is quickly attained but not as intimately telegraphed as in my C2. You must remember my C2 has many improvements in this department over stock and thus is more like my old RS in terms of handling. The big benefit of the C2 were the solid rear suspension mounts (aka GT2 EVO rear mounts). These help telegraph the rear ends movements better and also keeep the car much flatter under power in a corner. they are a worthwhile upgrade for a 993TT too but only if driven hard on road or track. Pinned front tie rods, thicker role bars and new A arm bushes all help with steering accuracy. The C2 was running a more aggressive tyre pattern (RE11) and also more negative camber on rear wheels.
The rear solid shims mentioned above would be my pick of improvements after good shocks for the 993TT. With more weight to carry and more power the rear squat would benefit from this mod and it was infact designed for higher horsepower 993 chassis applications....
What I found with the turbo is that pushed hard it went around corners well but you never quite knew where the adehsion limits were and thus leaned on the brakes (good that they are) a little more prior to turn in. I think 4WD has some say in this.
The 993TT could be driven with less consideration of gear ratio when approaching signed corners and switch-backs than the 993C2. The torque on these cars makes gear ratio less of an issue than in a C2 where you are mentally working through your ratios for a corner prior to entry. You can be more lazy in the 993TT. The C2 requires the correct choice and rewards when you have made it. When you have not you will loose alot of time. The stock 993TT could benefit from the FD golden rod to help gear shift accuracy. I found the stock 993TT box easy to operate but it seemed a little vague when compared to the C2 (which also has Weltmiester front hiem ball rod and RS shifter linkage).
Soundtrack was a hands down for the C2. Again many improvements here including dual cone filter, Dach X cat delete, RSR mufflers, motorsound tips, RS engine and tranny mounts, Steve Wong chip, RS LWFC etc etc. Basically at the end of the day in the C2 you could drive blind and know rev value and gear number due to feedback aurally and via CF Recaro style bucket seats (which give excellent feedback of chassis). The 993TT had a fairly stock set up so there is room to improve the sound but I think to some degree this is just an engine configuration difference.
Brakes. The trubo has bigger ones. The C2 had techart plumbed front brake ducts with backing plates reoves and weighs around 430lb less than the 993TT. Neither car was wanting in this department on our drives.
Delicacy, set up and road positioning. The C2 benefits from lower weight and multiple suspension improvements including RS adjustable sway bars. Overall it is more responisve to inputs - however the 993TT massive torque becomes a subsitute for feedback - this in itself has great grin factor.....
For two seasoned drivers of equal and considerable ability (probably not 993MAN or myself LOL!) I would say on any given day assuming fair road and weather conditions the two cars would be neck to neck in terms of timing through the tight windy course we were running. Most corners were posted between 18-35 mph and were taken 2-3 x that speed. Stretches between corners allowed speeds of no greater than 90-95 mph. On a more opeen stretch of road obviously the power of the 993TT would have it ahead....
I could write another 1000 words on this comparo. I loved both cars. Ultimately my 993C2 is set up to reward extreme and accurate driving on a multi dimensional sensory level. Its a unique vehicle thats been created by an individial for an individual. Its perhaps an acquired taste although I havent heard anything but praise by those who have driven it.
The 993TT is an incredibly competent car straigt out off the box. It can be lazy tourer one minute or it can be "attack miester" the next. Its civilized while being a bit lairy. As a factory package it was in my mind the best out of the box Porsche offered in the 993 range (barr perhaps the 993S for those who track alot).
What would I own. Ideally both! Ultimately I wouldnt give up my modded C2 for a 993TT - but if I were in the market from fresh I can without hesitation say I would buy a stock 993TT and at the prices today I believe these to be an all time performance bargain. To make a C2 like mine is a long, expensive and sometimes fustrating all consuming project. It simply makes little fiscal sense and the 993TT can deliver alot of wow for much less gross outlay.
My only caveat on the above summary is this. Depending where you live in the world today - having the roads and law to allow you to exploit machines like the 993TT, 996TT/GT2, 997TT/GT2 etc are becoming rarer. Highway congestion, anti speeed sentiment and poor road maintenance and infastructure are making it truely hard to enjoy such accomplished machines to the full. In NZ this is more so with poor motorway and largely single lane A highway infastructure. 993MAN has the benefit of tight twisty empty roads on his doorstep. You can attack 100% and barely be breaking the law most of the time. The 993TT is a fast machine. It eats those corners but thats not where it probably shines the most. Its best pastures would be in its native land. It needs a few wide open spaces to truely get its legs. Where we live that can end up in prison real quick. I think that why there is a growth in popularity towards the older more basic 911s and formats such as RS etc. At the end of the day we all grow old and enjoy pedalling well rather than always pedalling fast.
Long may we enjoy what we have....enjoy any P-car you are fortunate to own in good health!
Cheers
M
Id like to chip in if I may.
Curvelover - thank you for your kind feedback. Its appreciated!
As to the question of what I thought of my time driving 993MANs 993Turbo (1 hour = 45 miles all twisty windy fast back country roads :-))
We must remeber we are comparing a very considerably modified 993C2 manual NA to a stock (minus upgraded shocks) 993TT. Its probably more like comparing a 993RS to a 993TT....
I was very impressed with the power of the turbo. Primarily the torque and the lack of lag. I had spent time in a 996TT but never in a 993TT. The torque was alot of fun punching out of corners. A real point and squirt machine and reminded me in part of the torque available with my e39 M5 but in a much lighter and sportier package. Most excellent indeed. My C2 is making 293bhp and 259lbft. Its had some work to get it to that point (never opened the engine tho). The turbo engine delivers power on a higher plane!
Handling I found the package very stable and neutral. It did however lack some intimacy of communiation and I suspect the limit is quickly attained but not as intimately telegraphed as in my C2. You must remember my C2 has many improvements in this department over stock and thus is more like my old RS in terms of handling. The big benefit of the C2 were the solid rear suspension mounts (aka GT2 EVO rear mounts). These help telegraph the rear ends movements better and also keeep the car much flatter under power in a corner. they are a worthwhile upgrade for a 993TT too but only if driven hard on road or track. Pinned front tie rods, thicker role bars and new A arm bushes all help with steering accuracy. The C2 was running a more aggressive tyre pattern (RE11) and also more negative camber on rear wheels.
The rear solid shims mentioned above would be my pick of improvements after good shocks for the 993TT. With more weight to carry and more power the rear squat would benefit from this mod and it was infact designed for higher horsepower 993 chassis applications....
What I found with the turbo is that pushed hard it went around corners well but you never quite knew where the adehsion limits were and thus leaned on the brakes (good that they are) a little more prior to turn in. I think 4WD has some say in this.
The 993TT could be driven with less consideration of gear ratio when approaching signed corners and switch-backs than the 993C2. The torque on these cars makes gear ratio less of an issue than in a C2 where you are mentally working through your ratios for a corner prior to entry. You can be more lazy in the 993TT. The C2 requires the correct choice and rewards when you have made it. When you have not you will loose alot of time. The stock 993TT could benefit from the FD golden rod to help gear shift accuracy. I found the stock 993TT box easy to operate but it seemed a little vague when compared to the C2 (which also has Weltmiester front hiem ball rod and RS shifter linkage).
Soundtrack was a hands down for the C2. Again many improvements here including dual cone filter, Dach X cat delete, RSR mufflers, motorsound tips, RS engine and tranny mounts, Steve Wong chip, RS LWFC etc etc. Basically at the end of the day in the C2 you could drive blind and know rev value and gear number due to feedback aurally and via CF Recaro style bucket seats (which give excellent feedback of chassis). The 993TT had a fairly stock set up so there is room to improve the sound but I think to some degree this is just an engine configuration difference.
Brakes. The trubo has bigger ones. The C2 had techart plumbed front brake ducts with backing plates reoves and weighs around 430lb less than the 993TT. Neither car was wanting in this department on our drives.
Delicacy, set up and road positioning. The C2 benefits from lower weight and multiple suspension improvements including RS adjustable sway bars. Overall it is more responisve to inputs - however the 993TT massive torque becomes a subsitute for feedback - this in itself has great grin factor.....
For two seasoned drivers of equal and considerable ability (probably not 993MAN or myself LOL!) I would say on any given day assuming fair road and weather conditions the two cars would be neck to neck in terms of timing through the tight windy course we were running. Most corners were posted between 18-35 mph and were taken 2-3 x that speed. Stretches between corners allowed speeds of no greater than 90-95 mph. On a more opeen stretch of road obviously the power of the 993TT would have it ahead....
I could write another 1000 words on this comparo. I loved both cars. Ultimately my 993C2 is set up to reward extreme and accurate driving on a multi dimensional sensory level. Its a unique vehicle thats been created by an individial for an individual. Its perhaps an acquired taste although I havent heard anything but praise by those who have driven it.
The 993TT is an incredibly competent car straigt out off the box. It can be lazy tourer one minute or it can be "attack miester" the next. Its civilized while being a bit lairy. As a factory package it was in my mind the best out of the box Porsche offered in the 993 range (barr perhaps the 993S for those who track alot).
What would I own. Ideally both! Ultimately I wouldnt give up my modded C2 for a 993TT - but if I were in the market from fresh I can without hesitation say I would buy a stock 993TT and at the prices today I believe these to be an all time performance bargain. To make a C2 like mine is a long, expensive and sometimes fustrating all consuming project. It simply makes little fiscal sense and the 993TT can deliver alot of wow for much less gross outlay.
My only caveat on the above summary is this. Depending where you live in the world today - having the roads and law to allow you to exploit machines like the 993TT, 996TT/GT2, 997TT/GT2 etc are becoming rarer. Highway congestion, anti speeed sentiment and poor road maintenance and infastructure are making it truely hard to enjoy such accomplished machines to the full. In NZ this is more so with poor motorway and largely single lane A highway infastructure. 993MAN has the benefit of tight twisty empty roads on his doorstep. You can attack 100% and barely be breaking the law most of the time. The 993TT is a fast machine. It eats those corners but thats not where it probably shines the most. Its best pastures would be in its native land. It needs a few wide open spaces to truely get its legs. Where we live that can end up in prison real quick. I think that why there is a growth in popularity towards the older more basic 911s and formats such as RS etc. At the end of the day we all grow old and enjoy pedalling well rather than always pedalling fast.
Long may we enjoy what we have....enjoy any P-car you are fortunate to own in good health!
Cheers
M
Last edited by Macca; 01-13-2011 at 06:08 AM.
01-13-2011, 03:45 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Nice write up, sounds/looks like you guys had some fun!
+1 on the last couple of points. We have an automatic impound at 40kph over the limit law imposed recently...
I had a choice between a modded C2S and near stock turbo when I was looking a few years ago and I couldn't resist the torque of the turbo, it is very addictive.
(thanx again for the carbon bits!).
+1 on the last couple of points. We have an automatic impound at 40kph over the limit law imposed recently...
I had a choice between a modded C2S and near stock turbo when I was looking a few years ago and I couldn't resist the torque of the turbo, it is very addictive.
(thanx again for the carbon bits!).
01-13-2011, 04:54 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
basal skull. I think addictive is definately the right work to describe the power afforded by a car like the 993TT. Looks like yours would be a hell of a drive - an amalgamation of my C2 and a stock 993TT! we alos have auto 28 day compound and loss of lisence at 140kmph (40kmph above posted max). Draconian!
Cheers
M
Cheers
M
01-13-2011, 05:49 AM
#12
Drifting
Was just cruising through looking for 993 photos and crossed this one. Sorry for the crappy scribble job on the turbos license plate. I couldn't help myself. Nice cars though!
01-13-2011, 09:27 AM
#15
I would have loved to have thrown my RWD TT in there with erp monoballs all around, evo uprights, dropped on re-valved 1000lb r and 650f springs, k24's tuned ecu & straight pipes into the mix. Somehow even with the striaght pipes, I might think the NA car still make the better sound - however what my car lacks in tone, it tries to over-compensates with decibels. I have invested quite a bit into addressing the issues that make Macca's ride more rewarding and connected - (wieght included 3150 w driver). I couldnt agree more with with the feeling that you can't get the true enjoyment out of driving it on public roads anymore which is why mine has a roll bar, race buckets, and harnesses and why I rarely drive it anywhere without a helmet anymore.