Is RUF Integrated Roll Cage worth the cost?
01-03-2011, 02:52 PM
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And I believe that yellow car started its life as a normally aspirated 993... or I'm misreading the VIN table in the PET. An S in the 10th field of the VIN indicates a 95 model year car - there were no 95 993 turbos in the US.
01-03-2011, 02:54 PM
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01-03-2011, 06:39 PM
#19
Felix, that sounds right. I recall the guys at RUF mentioning this started life as a NA 993...
01-04-2011, 05:57 PM
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Thanks for your reply Iam.
The usage of the car will be 80% road use and 20% track.
I see what you are saying about the fact that with that money you could get other good upgrades and I also realize that for this usage profile a roll cage is not really required but I am kind of dreaming with the idea of having a 993 with some added safety and stiffness which (in my humble view) should improve the chassis performance a lot (together with a good suspension set etc).
Thanks for your input Viggo. Your posts are definitely in the set of the ones I have read many times and have in my bookmarks. I have followed this one
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...fenhausen.html
and agree with you that once you have your car at RUF it makes a lot of sense to follow their guide and replace whatever parts they suggest to replace. This of course leads to a big bill of hard earned money and one has to decide. To be honest, at this point (I have not even bought the car yet and I am already modifying it
) is still daydreaming but in my mind at least, I would like to put more effort on chassis improvement rather than increasing the power.
Thanks for your remarks about the CarClassic car. You are absolutely spot on about condition. I took a very close look at the interior and it looked like maybe it could have had an easier life. My '94 Carrera with 80000 km looks to be in much better shape inside and out. By the way, sorry if it came across as I wanted to buy this car; €150000 is well beyond my budget (regardless if this car is worth it or not). As a side point, it is funny that this car was advertised as a CTR2 at the fair (which obviously is not).
I feel honoured about your help offer. Thanks a lot. By the way, I have tried to find any posts from you with impressions of your car after its time at RUF. Have you written any threads on that?
Thanks Patrick. Please don't stop driving your car
Again, I agree that the IRC may not be a must for mainly road use... I guess I like to toy with the idea of having “my perfect 993”. I would love Porsche to offer a 993 with 2011 chassis technology which would mean a much stiffer chassis and a safer car against a crash but that is never going to happen so we will have to do something about it.
Many thanks Pete.
I think that my thinking follows yours. Did you manage to get your cage fabricator to “blend” the cage with the interior as per the RUF design?
As I said in my previous post, the cage I saw in this Turbo R had a level of quality that I don't think I could get anywhere else around here. But of course maybe there in the US you have access to better cage builders.
Having said that, (like Viggo mentioned in one of his posts) although any RUF mod comes at a very high cost, i think their history and hard earned reputation is actually backed up with a high quality level work that is somehow worth the money.
On the other hand, have you actually noticed a big improvement performance wise after the cage went in?
Thanks again for your replies.
The usage of the car will be 80% road use and 20% track.
I see what you are saying about the fact that with that money you could get other good upgrades and I also realize that for this usage profile a roll cage is not really required but I am kind of dreaming with the idea of having a 993 with some added safety and stiffness which (in my humble view) should improve the chassis performance a lot (together with a good suspension set etc).
Thanks for your input Viggo. Your posts are definitely in the set of the ones I have read many times and have in my bookmarks. I have followed this one
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...fenhausen.html
and agree with you that once you have your car at RUF it makes a lot of sense to follow their guide and replace whatever parts they suggest to replace. This of course leads to a big bill of hard earned money and one has to decide. To be honest, at this point (I have not even bought the car yet and I am already modifying it
) is still daydreaming but in my mind at least, I would like to put more effort on chassis improvement rather than increasing the power.Thanks for your remarks about the CarClassic car. You are absolutely spot on about condition. I took a very close look at the interior and it looked like maybe it could have had an easier life. My '94 Carrera with 80000 km looks to be in much better shape inside and out. By the way, sorry if it came across as I wanted to buy this car; €150000 is well beyond my budget (regardless if this car is worth it or not). As a side point, it is funny that this car was advertised as a CTR2 at the fair (which obviously is not).
I feel honoured about your help offer. Thanks a lot. By the way, I have tried to find any posts from you with impressions of your car after its time at RUF. Have you written any threads on that?
Thanks Patrick. Please don't stop driving your car
Again, I agree that the IRC may not be a must for mainly road use... I guess I like to toy with the idea of having “my perfect 993”. I would love Porsche to offer a 993 with 2011 chassis technology which would mean a much stiffer chassis and a safer car against a crash but that is never going to happen so we will have to do something about it.
Many thanks Pete.
I think that my thinking follows yours. Did you manage to get your cage fabricator to “blend” the cage with the interior as per the RUF design?
As I said in my previous post, the cage I saw in this Turbo R had a level of quality that I don't think I could get anywhere else around here. But of course maybe there in the US you have access to better cage builders.
Having said that, (like Viggo mentioned in one of his posts) although any RUF mod comes at a very high cost, i think their history and hard earned reputation is actually backed up with a high quality level work that is somehow worth the money.
On the other hand, have you actually noticed a big improvement performance wise after the cage went in?
Thanks again for your replies.
Now, the thing that happened to me probably happened to most of us at least once. I lost all the pictures of the day I collected the RUF. My "Black Pearl" now sits in winter storage and when I looked around on my computer the other day I couldn't find a single picture of the car "post RUF". So that's my excuse for not posting a write-up of my conversion. I will do though, so stay tuned
.As for your questions, for one I havn't driven a RUF with an IRC so I can't comment on that. However, I'd be surpised if you could actually feel much of a difference. Chassis stiffness is increased, but I don't know how remarkable that is in terms of driving feel..
I think it's good to focus on chassis and suspension setup before adding power. That being said, the RUF power is addictive
. You are right about their quality. I can really vouch for them, they are great people to deal with and that special RUF soul that these cars have really shines through once you sit behind the wheel 
.My car will also be 80% street 20% track. Right now I'm debating to what level I should take the turboR. It's either keeping the interior original with the carbon fiber tequipment stuff and the hardback sport seats, or replacing the hardback sport seats with bucket seats, remove the rear seats and install a roll bar. For some reason I've been debating this to death and I need to make up my mind
.Are you looking to find a used RUF or are you modifying an original 993TT? You can always start with the IRC (or your own version of it), suspension etc. and then do the turboR upgrade in a few years when you have saved some cash and the engine needs a rebuild
. Good luck either way! 
As a former turboR owner I'd say it's not worth it unless you're also doing a LOT of other RUF parts. If you were considering the engine conversion, suspension/brakes, gauges, seats, etc. AND you were going to see more than your stated 20% track usage then it might make sense, especially if you were also considering the rain gutter delete option. TB993tt had a non-RUF version installed in his car in the UK. He was a regular v-maxer, where he and the car used to see speeds in excess of 190 mph. Do a search and you'll find his post which included lots of pix. It was a very high class installation.
. I saw the IRC in Tobys car and indeed it looks very nice. I wonder what the total bill was. I'm starting to think that eventhough 12K eur + VAT is a ton of money, considering the amount of hours that have to be spent to accomodate the IRC (like RUF does), I have to say it's one of the better "craftsmanship" touches you can give your 993TT. Probably still overkill for a mostly street car but I guess you can always get away justifying the cost by saying: You can't be safe enough!Kevin, the car in these pictures does not seem to have the IRC fitted. Maybe this was done afterwards, could very well be. Love your car btw, it was a great inspiration for my project! As a side note: Do you have a bigger spare that fits over those massive brakes? Or did you ditch the spare wheel and instead keep the AAA card handy? PM if you prefer. Sorry for the OT.
Patrick, I can see CTR2 bumpers in your future
01-05-2011, 02:46 AM
#23
Viggo, I ditched the spare. Saves weight too, albeit at the wrong end of the car!!
Clearance for the 15'' brakes is minimal even with 19'' wheels. the rotors are massive. I actually swapped these out for the 14'' rotors and 6 piston calipers for a few days, but hated the pedal feel of the 6 pot set up. The inital bite on the 4 pot set up is much much better.
Good luck and keep us posted!!
Kevin
Clearance for the 15'' brakes is minimal even with 19'' wheels. the rotors are massive. I actually swapped these out for the 14'' rotors and 6 piston calipers for a few days, but hated the pedal feel of the 6 pot set up. The inital bite on the 4 pot set up is much much better.
Good luck and keep us posted!!
Kevin
01-05-2011, 05:58 PM
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01-05-2011, 07:39 PM
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Viggo, I ditched the spare. Saves weight too, albeit at the wrong end of the car!!
Clearance for the 15'' brakes is minimal even with 19'' wheels. the rotors are massive. I actually swapped these out for the 14'' rotors and 6 piston calipers for a few days, but hated the pedal feel of the 6 pot set up. The inital bite on the 4 pot set up is much much better.
Good luck and keep us posted!!
Kevin
Clearance for the 15'' brakes is minimal even with 19'' wheels. the rotors are massive. I actually swapped these out for the 14'' rotors and 6 piston calipers for a few days, but hated the pedal feel of the 6 pot set up. The inital bite on the 4 pot set up is much much better.
Good luck and keep us posted!!
Kevin
. No long trips then for you in the turboR? Your write-up of the turboR really helped a lot in chosing which "aftermarket" tuner to go for. Did you consider removing the rain gutters as well? I've heard it's a lot of man hours involved.. Not sure if it's worth it.
01-05-2011, 11:14 PM
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In the above photos you can see how the door bars bolt into the IRC using exposed eyelets. And, you can see the boltin eyelets in th photos in the for-sale ad.
01-06-2011, 08:53 AM
#30
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Thanks BB. Is this the thread and pictures you are referring to (post #359)?
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...-993tt-24.html
I agree; it is a very high standard work. I did not realize until now that the B pillar bar is not actually a tube but rather a rectangular section bar. I think it is a very neat design because the bar follows the pillar all along its length, instead being welded or gusseted only to a few sections of it, like you normally see in other cage designs.
Thanks Kevin.
You drive one of the best looking 993s I’ve seen. Obviously your car, together with Viggo’s, Steve´s and some others are a great source of inspiration.
As I mentioned, I first have to find a good unit and then my plan is to do some mods step by step because of financial constraints. I fully see you guys thinking about an engine rebuild once the car is at RUF but in my case I see that as a second or third stage event.
Looks like the car I saw here in Barcelona last month has an interesting history. Again, it is out of my reach at the moment so I am not too worry about it but thanks very much for your input on its previous life.
Thanks Felix.
Yeah, I guess the half cage gives a good compromise between no cage and a full cage as far as safety and non-intrusiveness but maybe does not add too much rigidity. It would be great to have some actual figures of real stiffness increases…something like what this poster on Pelican did for this car.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...iew-slope.html
I am convinced that increasing the chassis stiffness should give immediate gains to the car performance even in normal driving conditions and not only when driving at a 100% of the car's potential in a racetrack.
Maybe I am a bit too obsessed about this but the thing is the garage I have here in Barcelona has a steep slope just before the garage itself, that I have to attack in a 45 degrees direction because the parking space is perpendicular to the drive way(not sure if I am explaining my self here) but I can hear the front windscreen squealing when getting into the slope. I definitely think that there is some room for improvement margin there (although maybe it is not so necessary in the tt chassis since, as Viggo pointed out, it is stiffer than the standard Carrera one).
Viggo:
Well, finding a used RUF unit with the IRC would be a great option but from what I’ve seen, RUF cars (both RUF and non RUF VIN like yours) command a huge price that I simply can’t afford at the moment so the option for me is get a standard car and then start modifying.
Sonny, thanks so much for your reply and pictures of your car.
Is this the 6speedonline thread you mean?:
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...-coffee-2.html
First picture on post #23 is great. It looks like then that there are different RUF cage designs, at least as far as the B pillar bar is concerned: you have the rectangular section bar or the round bar design.
The trimming of the cage in your car is exactly what I would like to have. Is it alcantara? It is a top work.
Thanks again gents.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...-993tt-24.html
I agree; it is a very high standard work. I did not realize until now that the B pillar bar is not actually a tube but rather a rectangular section bar. I think it is a very neat design because the bar follows the pillar all along its length, instead being welded or gusseted only to a few sections of it, like you normally see in other cage designs.
You drive one of the best looking 993s I’ve seen. Obviously your car, together with Viggo’s, Steve´s and some others are a great source of inspiration.
As I mentioned, I first have to find a good unit and then my plan is to do some mods step by step because of financial constraints. I fully see you guys thinking about an engine rebuild once the car is at RUF but in my case I see that as a second or third stage event.
Looks like the car I saw here in Barcelona last month has an interesting history. Again, it is out of my reach at the moment so I am not too worry about it but thanks very much for your input on its previous life.
Yeah, I guess the half cage gives a good compromise between no cage and a full cage as far as safety and non-intrusiveness but maybe does not add too much rigidity. It would be great to have some actual figures of real stiffness increases…something like what this poster on Pelican did for this car.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...iew-slope.html
I am convinced that increasing the chassis stiffness should give immediate gains to the car performance even in normal driving conditions and not only when driving at a 100% of the car's potential in a racetrack.
Maybe I am a bit too obsessed about this but the thing is the garage I have here in Barcelona has a steep slope just before the garage itself, that I have to attack in a 45 degrees direction because the parking space is perpendicular to the drive way(not sure if I am explaining my self here) but I can hear the front windscreen squealing when getting into the slope. I definitely think that there is some room for improvement margin there (although maybe it is not so necessary in the tt chassis since, as Viggo pointed out, it is stiffer than the standard Carrera one).
Are you looking to find a used RUF or are you modifying an original 993TT? You can always start with the IRC (or your own version of it), suspension etc. and then do the turboR upgrade in a few years when you have saved some cash and the engine needs a rebuild . Good luck either way!
. Good luck either way! Well, finding a used RUF unit with the IRC would be a great option but from what I’ve seen, RUF cars (both RUF and non RUF VIN like yours) command a huge price that I simply can’t afford at the moment so the option for me is get a standard car and then start modifying.
Is this the 6speedonline thread you mean?:
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...-coffee-2.html
First picture on post #23 is great. It looks like then that there are different RUF cage designs, at least as far as the B pillar bar is concerned: you have the rectangular section bar or the round bar design.
The trimming of the cage in your car is exactly what I would like to have. Is it alcantara? It is a top work.
Thanks again gents.