Nautilus

Dear all:

After more than 5 years of 993 Carrera ownership, I am planning (personal finances permitting) buying a 993 tt this year (will keep the Carrera though).

I am a real 993 fan so I am not considering other options (watercooled 911s) even if as we all know the 996 tt in particular is a great bargain these days and even if I understand that newer cars have superior performance, not only down to power but also to a better chassis (better torsional stiffness, better aerodynamics etc).

I am also a great RUF enthusiast, although it's been only very recently that I have seen one in the flesh: a Turbo R that was on sale in this fair:
http://www.autoretro.es/

The car on sale was actually this one:
http://www.carclassic.com/Porsche_91...look_EJ33.html

The feature that impressed me the most was that this car had a beautifully crafted roll cage that was almost “invisible”; I actually did not realized it was there until I took a very close look to the car interior.
I did a search on the forum and found really good threads like this one:
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...roll-cage.html

This takes me to my question:

Upon checking the RUF website it appears that the RUF integrated roll cage is €12500 (around $16700). Installing a full welded cage fabricated by a local workshop is obviously an option but for the usage that I would give to the car, I think it is too intrusive. Also, I doubt that the quality I could get would be comparable to what I saw on the RUF car

My question is:
does the board think that this is a worthy modification on a 993 tt? Does this cage provide an increase in torsional stiffness or does it “just” work as a safety device?

I realize that it does not make too much sense to send a car to RUF for just this mod, but I am surprised that fellow rennlisters that have actually gone for a Turbo R package have not gone for this option.

So, is it worth it?

Many thanks in advance for reading and happy new year 2011 from Spain to you all.

IamSMC

What is your long term intentions with your 993tt purchase?

If track only, then some might say that $16700 is worth every penny for safety. Have you considered Heigo instead?

But for a street, that $16700 will buy some serious upgrades (ie: suspension, turbos, etc) with some change leftover. And that's with a DAS rollbar.

In the end, its about personal choices and what you're budget can fathom.

Good luck on your 993tt quest and keep us posted.

V

I opted not to do the IRC when my 993TT was at RUF earlier this year. It's not only a safety component but it adds lot's of rigidity and chassis stiffness, which is good (for most of the time). However, the 993 chassis is pretty stiff to begin with and I just could not justify the cost of doing the IRC. When you are looking at a RUF conversion, keep in mind that the cost will end up much higher than what is stated in the RUF catalogue. Remember, these cars are more than 12 years old and many of small (and perhaps big) things will need to be replaced in order for the engine to cope with the power of the turboR. Instead of the IRC, I did the aero mirrors and a-pillar inserts and I also opted for the rear rigid shim kit and some RUF suspension bits. My total bill was around 40K eur incl. VAT. It's a ton of money but I love my RUF conversion and I have virtually a brand new engine to boot (also included in that cost are new turbos and new cylinder heads). Also for my application the IRC is overkill. I would rather save up another 12.5K eur + VAT and get a 993 cab as a stablemate for the turboR .

Edit: The RUF car (yellow) in the link about looks nice. Just a few remarks; the VIN suggests that this was a US delivery car to begin with. Don't know if that matters to you but the odometer has likely been replaced somewhere down the road. Might be worth checking a bit there. The mileage is about the same as my car but I have to say that 150K eur (eventhough that would make me rich) is a hefty pricetag for that car.. The drivers seat looks a bit rough for that mileage, especially considering that the probably were not there to begin with (not even for 4X.XXXkms). The car looks nice either way and I would be glad to help out should you have any questions. Having been in your situation about a year ago I might be able to provide some help. Good luck either way!

Texas993

$200k?! I need to stop driving mine!

I don't have an IRC and don't see the need. I have seen several RUF IRCs and they are well done.

pstoppani

I think the IRC is worth it on a car that is a dual purpose street and track car and you want to maximize safety and rigidity. However, I'm guessing most Ruf's are used infrequently, so would say the IRC is not hugely important.

I wanted to add a clone of Ruf's IRC to my Turbo, but the cost was simply too high. Instead, I went with a custom made welded-in half cage with lightweight carpeting. I'm unwilling to put a full race cage in a street-driven car; unless it is the IRC...

But, a Ruf like the one in the link is a rare/special car to the point where discussing its value is difficult. I certainly would not pay $200K for it! Regardless of the IRC.

Nautilus

Thanks for your reply Iam.
The usage of the car will be 80% road use and 20% track.
I see what you are saying about the fact that with that money you could get other good upgrades and I also realize that for this usage profile a roll cage is not really required but I am kind of dreaming with the idea of having a 993 with some added safety and stiffness which (in my humble view) should improve the chassis performance a lot (together with a good suspension set etc).
Thanks for your input Viggo. Your posts are definitely in the set of the ones I have read many times and have in my bookmarks. I have followed this one
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...fenhausen.html
and agree with you that once you have your car at RUF it makes a lot of sense to follow their guide and replace whatever parts they suggest to replace. This of course leads to a big bill of hard earned money and one has to decide. To be honest, at this point (I have not even bought the car yet and I am already modifying it ) is still daydreaming but in my mind at least, I would like to put more effort on chassis improvement rather than increasing the power.

Thanks for your remarks about the CarClassic car. You are absolutely spot on about condition. I took a very close look at the interior and it looked like maybe it could have had an easier life. My '94 Carrera with 80000 km looks to be in much better shape inside and out. By the way, sorry if it came across as I wanted to buy this car; €150000 is well beyond my budget (regardless if this car is worth it or not). As a side point, it is funny that this car was advertised as a CTR2 at the fair (which obviously is not).



I feel honoured about your help offer. Thanks a lot. By the way, I have tried to find any posts from you with impressions of your car after its time at RUF. Have you written any threads on that?

Thanks Patrick. Please don't stop driving your car
Again, I agree that the IRC may not be a must for mainly road use... I guess I like to toy with the idea of having “my perfect 993”. I would love Porsche to offer a 993 with 2011 chassis technology which would mean a much stiffer chassis and a safer car against a crash but that is never going to happen so we will have to do something about it.

Many thanks Pete.
I think that my thinking follows yours. Did you manage to get your cage fabricator to “blend” the cage with the interior as per the RUF design?

As I said in my previous post, the cage I saw in this Turbo R had a level of quality that I don't think I could get anywhere else around here. But of course maybe there in the US you have access to better cage builders.
Having said that, (like Viggo mentioned in one of his posts) although any RUF mod comes at a very high cost, i think their history and hard earned reputation is actually backed up with a high quality level work that is somehow worth the money.

On the other hand, have you actually noticed a big improvement performance wise after the cage went in?

Thanks again for your replies.

pstoppani

Since mine is a half cage, I did not have it blended/integrated into the body.

For me, the value of the integration is mainly to keep the cage out of harms way.

To maximize the safety of a half cage, I think it more important to use an appropriate amount of tubing triangulation which is difficult to achieve with an integrated rear half cage; I doubt anyone could confirm the amount of protection such a integrated half cage would provide vs well known "standard" race-derived configurations.

So, I went with a "standard" rear half cage which is not at all integrated.

I think any half cage is a compromise compared to the full IRC Ruf cage, but at some point you have to weight the cost/benefit and probability of a possibly fatal rollover. Also, even the Ruf IRC is a compromise compared to a full race cage; which for me is not a viable option.

If I had enough money, yes, I would have sent my car to Ruf for their IRC or had someone try to duplicate it (I'm not interested in the other Ruf upgrades).

bb993tt

As a former turboR owner I'd say it's not worth it unless you're also doing a LOT of other RUF parts. If you were considering the engine conversion, suspension/brakes, gauges, seats, etc. AND you were going to see more than your stated 20% track usage then it might make sense, especially if you were also considering the rain gutter delete option. TB993tt had a non-RUF version installed in his car in the UK. He was a regular v-maxer, where he and the car used to see speeds in excess of 190 mph. Do a search and you'll find his post which included lots of pix. It was a very high class installation.

kmy

This car looks exactly like the one that was at RUF Dallas a couple of years back. At the time it was registered in Canada. Wayne took me for a ride in the car when I was deciding whether or not to do the Turbo R conversion for my car. It was a great car from what I remember and the rollcage was very trick. I believe RUF was listing the car for $129K at the time. I too decided not to go with the IRC. My car has never been on the track and i was planning on using it almost exclusively for the road.

Viggo's right about the cost though. I ended up having RUF do a full top end and bottom end rebuild on my motor to get it in the shape I wanted. new pistons, rings, seals, bearings, gaskets, etc. In addition to the cams, turbos, oil cooler and ECU that come with the upgrade, I had RUF add RS motor mounts, clutch, diverter valves, MAF, suspension parts and the big brake upgrade front and rear. I figured since the motor was going to be out, might as well have RUF replace anything and everything that is a wear item and I wanted RUF to be the one doing all of the work. Add to that the cosmetic stuff (mirrors, body kit, wheels) and things add up quick.

Despite the cost however, I couldn't be happier with the result. the RUF is tons of fun! Here are a few recent pics of mine to help you with your decision!!!

Cheers,
Kevin

kmy

Here are a couple more pics I have of the car...

d-land

-David

ca993twin

I would LOVE to have the IRC and the rain-gutter delete. I'd also get rid of the sunroof in the process. Another expensive and goofy Ruf option are the gauges. Dang. Me want.

Texas993

Steve, put the checkbook down. You will be ok...

I agree, it is very tempting to go all out on these cars. I have been pretty good lately with no upgrades in over a year.

Felix

I would offer that a half cage is great for safety but not a major contributor to chassis stiffness as its only effective from the B pillar back. The major improvement in stiffness comes from stiffening the chassis across the door opening.

bb993tt

Felix (formerly known as phelix), glad to see you finally got the correct username after all these years! And ... Happy New Year.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.