Fake 993TT Rear Wing?
11-07-2010, 01:37 AM
#16
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"FS: 993TT Factory Spoiler Excellent Condition"
"Due to a conversion, I'm selling my 993TT factory spoiler that was installed on my C2S. This lightweight, fiberglass one piece spoiler replaces the entire engine lid/spoiler for any narrow or wide body 993. It is an easy bolt on installation and is a great look. Cost $7,000 new in 1997. Never repainted; easy to match your car's color. The wholesalers get $3,000; I just want to sell it and will pack and ship for actual cost or you can pick it up in NJ. $1,500. Please PM or send email to newtobread@aol.com."
If it is not a factory spoiler he has a legitimate beef and his you should take it back and return is money. If it is a factory spoiler, stand up and say so.
11-07-2010, 01:37 AM
#17
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more info (AKA "Chuck beat me by a nano-second" ^^)
1. Buyer committed to the spoiler on 9-22-10
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; there was no misrepresentation
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; there was no misrepresentation
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
993 Turbo Forum - "Possible Sale: OEM Turbo Spoiler Complete"
Member to Member Classifieds Forum - "FS: 993TT Factory Spoiler Excellent Condition"
993 Turbo Forum (again) - "993TT Factory Spoiler Excellent Condition-Sale Pending"
11-07-2010, 01:57 AM
#18
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Hopefully helpful. Pix from RLer 993DX (Robin Sun)'s "Parts and pieces for the factory twin turbo wing" on P-car.com...
11-07-2010, 08:36 AM
#19
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Deadhead, regardless of all the "he said and she said" stuff, if the customer is not happy (and I assume you want happy customers) why not refund Declan's money? Rennlist is better than this. Isn't your reputation and pride in knowing you did the right thing, worth more than the $1,500?
11-07-2010, 02:06 PM
#20
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I will not give Declan's misrepresentations credence by engaging in a pissing contest on this board. This will be my one and only response. Fellow members can draw their own conclusions.
1. Buyer committed to the spoiler on 9-22-10
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
I am not a store and this is not my business. Had the buyer not waited a month between his commitment to purchase and when he decided he no longer wanted it, perhaps the outcome would have been different. Also when the buyer chose to use this forum to express this private matter and to slander me, he closed the door to any consideration.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
1. Buyer committed to the spoiler on 9-22-10
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
I am not a store and this is not my business. Had the buyer not waited a month between his commitment to purchase and when he decided he no longer wanted it, perhaps the outcome would have been different. Also when the buyer chose to use this forum to express this private matter and to slander me, he closed the door to any consideration.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
By not refunding his money, you go from "person who made a mistake" to "disreputable *****."
11-07-2010, 08:04 PM
#21
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I will not give Declan's misrepresentations credence by engaging in a pissing contest on this board. This will be my one and only response. Fellow members can draw their own conclusions.
1. Buyer committed to the spoiler on 9-22-10
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
I am not a store and this is not my business. Had the buyer not waited a month between his commitment to purchase and when he decided he no longer wanted it, perhaps the outcome would have been different. Also when the buyer chose to use this forum to express this private matter and to slander me, he closed the door to any consideration.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
1. Buyer committed to the spoiler on 9-22-10
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
I am not a store and this is not my business. Had the buyer not waited a month between his commitment to purchase and when he decided he no longer wanted it, perhaps the outcome would have been different. Also when the buyer chose to use this forum to express this private matter and to slander me, he closed the door to any consideration.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
As I said in my first post, I want to get this resolved quickly and cleanly and accordingly I sought out the advice of our community experts to confirm or deny that the wing I bought from you was the genuine Porsche part you advertised it as. Based on the responses to this thread the wing is without question an aftermarket part.
Whether you knew this wing was genuine or not when you advertised it is irelevant to me, what does matter is that an independent source has proved that it is not what you advertised it to be.
I have no intention of getting into a pissing contest with you. Yes I work in the auto business (I'm an manafactures rep) yes I have spent a lot of my life on or at race tracks, and yes I have built cars but what has that got to do with anything? I have not, as you stated missreprented anything...
1) I sent you an email on 9-21 asking if the spoiler was a genuine Porsche part. On 9-22 you said yes and I commited to buying it accordingly.
2) I mailed you a check and asked if it would be ok to pick up the wing in a few weeks as I would be in your area on business. you said that was fine.
3) 10-8 I picked up wing in person, questioned it's authenticity but you assured me it was authentic.
4) I sent you 2 pm's, one on 10-10 (2 days after I picked up the wing) and the other on 10-18 (10 days after I picked up the wing) stating my suspisions. your one and only responce to my PM's was on 10-20 and it again stated it was a Porsche part and that you would not take it back.
5) I started this post on 10-25 to see if my suspitions were correct.
6) I have all the PM's from and to you and can forward or post them if you need or want me to clarify any of this.
I have no intention of hurting your good name here... and clearly have not done so. So far, at worst, we can say this wing was mistakingly sold as a genuine Porsche part however, if you decide to not take it back I think you will agree, mistakingly changes to fraud and neither one of us wants that to happen... I will be back in NJ next week, I can drop off the wing, you can give me a check and this is resolved with your good name intact and my search for a genuine 993TT rear wing will continue...
Regards,
Dec
Last edited by Eire993; 11-07-2010 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Date was wrong
11-07-2010, 09:21 PM
#22
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wow, I'm surprised
for what it's worth I purchased a couple of items (wheels and a manual) from Deadhead and found him to be an honest and reliable seller.
Post purchase I found a bent rim and he actually refunded me some repair dollars so perhaps your approach is wrong?
Posting all the drama online probably won't help your situation in my opinion.
I hate buyng used items from private parties myself as it's always a risk, no matter what the seller may think is true, it's still a buyer beware situation.
It sounds like you looked the item over yourself and pulled the trigger in person, not like buying a used item online sight unseen.
Not quite sure how you expect a public forum to help your cause?
Did you try calling him?
I find people respond better to actual contact either via phone or in person vs email or keyboard cowboy BS.
Just my opinion,
no affiliation
Good luck, I hope it works out for you
Post purchase I found a bent rim and he actually refunded me some repair dollars so perhaps your approach is wrong?
Posting all the drama online probably won't help your situation in my opinion.
I hate buyng used items from private parties myself as it's always a risk, no matter what the seller may think is true, it's still a buyer beware situation.
It sounds like you looked the item over yourself and pulled the trigger in person, not like buying a used item online sight unseen.
Not quite sure how you expect a public forum to help your cause?
Did you try calling him?
I find people respond better to actual contact either via phone or in person vs email or keyboard cowboy BS.
Just my opinion,
no affiliation
Good luck, I hope it works out for you
11-08-2010, 01:26 AM
#23
I will not give Declan's misrepresentations credence by engaging in a pissing contest on this board. This will be my one and only response. Fellow members can draw their own conclusions.
1. Buyer committed to the spoiler on 9-22-10
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
I am not a store and this is not my business. Had the buyer not waited a month between his commitment to purchase and when he decided he no longer wanted it, perhaps the outcome would have been different. Also when the buyer chose to use this forum to express this private matter and to slander me, he closed the door to any consideration.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
1. Buyer committed to the spoiler on 9-22-10
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
I am not a store and this is not my business. Had the buyer not waited a month between his commitment to purchase and when he decided he no longer wanted it, perhaps the outcome would have been different. Also when the buyer chose to use this forum to express this private matter and to slander me, he closed the door to any consideration.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
11-08-2010, 10:07 AM
#24
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Hi S4for5. Thanks for the post and opinion. I will contact the seller again today. I'm happy things worked out for you. Hopefully the same happens here
Dec
Dec
for what it's worth I purchased a couple of items (wheels and a manual) from Deadhead and found him to be an honest and reliable seller.
Post purchase I found a bent rim and he actually refunded me some repair dollars so perhaps your approach is wrong?
Posting all the drama online probably won't help your situation in my opinion.
I hate buyng used items from private parties myself as it's always a risk, no matter what the seller may think is true, it's still a buyer beware situation.
It sounds like you looked the item over yourself and pulled the trigger in person, not like buying a used item online sight unseen.
Not quite sure how you expect a public forum to help your cause?
Did you try calling him?
I find people respond better to actual contact either via phone or in person vs email or keyboard cowboy BS.
Just my opinion,
no affiliation
Good luck, I hope it works out for you
Post purchase I found a bent rim and he actually refunded me some repair dollars so perhaps your approach is wrong?
Posting all the drama online probably won't help your situation in my opinion.
I hate buyng used items from private parties myself as it's always a risk, no matter what the seller may think is true, it's still a buyer beware situation.
It sounds like you looked the item over yourself and pulled the trigger in person, not like buying a used item online sight unseen.
Not quite sure how you expect a public forum to help your cause?
Did you try calling him?
I find people respond better to actual contact either via phone or in person vs email or keyboard cowboy BS.
Just my opinion,
no affiliation
Good luck, I hope it works out for you
11-08-2010, 02:00 PM
#25
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You represented it to be a factory tail. Unless you're now stating that it is not the same tail you sold (buyer switched it out) then you did exactly what the buyer claimed - refused to take back the misrepresented item. Replica tails are worth less than half what you were paid for this used tail.
http://www.betterbodiesmotorsport.co...twinturbo.html
I know these are hard times for people but this is just sad.
http://www.betterbodiesmotorsport.co...twinturbo.html
I know these are hard times for people but this is just sad.
I will not give Declan's misrepresentations credence by engaging in a pissing contest on this board. This will be my one and only response. Fellow members can draw their own conclusions.
1. Buyer committed to the spoiler on 9-22-10
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
I am not a store and this is not my business. Had the buyer not waited a month between his commitment to purchase and when he decided he no longer wanted it, perhaps the outcome would have been different. Also when the buyer chose to use this forum to express this private matter and to slander me, he closed the door to any consideration.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
1. Buyer committed to the spoiler on 9-22-10
2. Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer
3. Buyer is in the auto business, has raced professionally and builds cars; hence a knowledgeable buyer
4. Nearly 4 weeks transpired (approx 10-18-10) when buyer changed his mind about the item
5. Original owner re-confirmed spoiler was purchased, painted and installed by Porsche dealer.
I am not a store and this is not my business. Had the buyer not waited a month between his commitment to purchase and when he decided he no longer wanted it, perhaps the outcome would have been different. Also when the buyer chose to use this forum to express this private matter and to slander me, he closed the door to any consideration.
Buyer is free to use the spoiler as originally intended or he can re-sell it. He paid $1,500.
11-08-2010, 02:41 PM
#26
Observations:
1. deadhead1960 said he purchased this wing from a Porsche dealer. So unknowingly he assumed "genuine" unless the Porsche dealer disclosed "replica". He may have a legitimate beef with that Porsche dealer if sold as "genuine".
2. Assumption of "genuine" passed from deadhead1960 to Erie993. But once discovered it wasn't "genuine", this is where it got sticky between the parties. Where does deadhead1960's responsibility end for the item sold as "genuine" when he assumed he bought a "genuine" product from a Porsche dealer?
3. "Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer" But the length of time spent inspecting won't change it to be "genuine". I suspect the time spent inspecting was more for "condition" of the item then was for checking if the item was "genuine".
I would really like to see the bill of sale from the Porsche dealer to deadhead1960 and that will begin to make more light of the siutation.
BTW, my observations don't mean I'm an expert of anything...
1. deadhead1960 said he purchased this wing from a Porsche dealer. So unknowingly he assumed "genuine" unless the Porsche dealer disclosed "replica". He may have a legitimate beef with that Porsche dealer if sold as "genuine".
2. Assumption of "genuine" passed from deadhead1960 to Erie993. But once discovered it wasn't "genuine", this is where it got sticky between the parties. Where does deadhead1960's responsibility end for the item sold as "genuine" when he assumed he bought a "genuine" product from a Porsche dealer?
3. "Spoiler was picked up personally by buyer; it was thoroughly inspected for at least 30 minutes by buyer" But the length of time spent inspecting won't change it to be "genuine". I suspect the time spent inspecting was more for "condition" of the item then was for checking if the item was "genuine".
I would really like to see the bill of sale from the Porsche dealer to deadhead1960 and that will begin to make more light of the siutation.
BTW, my observations don't mean I'm an expert of anything...
Last edited by IamSMC; 11-09-2010 at 09:47 PM.
11-08-2010, 04:06 PM
#27
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I think the sellers ignorance of whether or not the wing was OEM is moot.
He said it was OEM.
It is not.
Refund.
I recently advertised my front bumper as OEM Euro. When I took it off the car, after having come to an agreement with the buyer, it turned out to be OEM US with the bumper holes filled. I immediately informed the buyer and cut the price in 1/2. He was fine with that.
I thought it was OEM Euro all the time. I was ignorant of the truth. Once I learned the truth I manned up.
He said it was OEM.
It is not.
Refund.
I recently advertised my front bumper as OEM Euro. When I took it off the car, after having come to an agreement with the buyer, it turned out to be OEM US with the bumper holes filled. I immediately informed the buyer and cut the price in 1/2. He was fine with that.
I thought it was OEM Euro all the time. I was ignorant of the truth. Once I learned the truth I manned up.
11-09-2010, 02:23 AM
#28
Also, here are more pictures for comparisons:
http://www.ladismantler.com/index.ph...em&inv_id=1845
There are pictures clearly showing the part number on a real OEM tail
Last edited by IamSMC; 11-09-2010 at 06:33 PM.
11-09-2010, 02:33 AM
#29
He attempts to say he "genuinely" believes the wing is OEM
That may explain why he appears to have a clear conscience about the matter
But unfortunately, the discovery came to light after the money was pocketed
Most of us have learned, one time or another, that due diligence unfortunately falls on the buyer's shoulders
11-09-2010, 12:33 PM
#30
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I respectfully disagree. He stated it was OEM. It turns out not to be.
He appears to be clearing his conscience with "caveate emptor", the buyer was sophisticated, blah, blah, blah.
It's not like he said "I think it is OEM but I can't guarantee it."
Sure you can "rationalize" that what ever you can get away with is fine. It's not.
We should be better than that.
If I were the buyer and the seller did not do the right thing, I'd take him to small claims court.
He appears to be clearing his conscience with "caveate emptor", the buyer was sophisticated, blah, blah, blah.
It's not like he said "I think it is OEM but I can't guarantee it."
Sure you can "rationalize" that what ever you can get away with is fine. It's not.
We should be better than that.
If I were the buyer and the seller did not do the right thing, I'd take him to small claims court.