V

Very sound advice from both of you, thanks a lot . I am definately looking to stay at or below 500hp. My car will be 90% street, well maybe a bit more track.. .

Pat, may I ask how much your conversion was including labour? PM me if you prefer.. I thought the extra oil cooler was neccessary at closer to 500hp? A cpl more Q:s for you pat:

-Was the ECU from FVD bolt on? No further programming needed? Do you have MY97? Was that a whole new ECU that replaced the old one or just the chip that goes inside the old one?
-How do you perceive the lag now vs. before the upgrade?
-Did you dyno the car or do you have an estimate of your hp figure?
I would guess you have above the 450hp that the stock WLSII ECU produces with the k24's?



CarreraGT: I plan on using the stock headers but replacing the cats with sport cats (100 or 200cell) and then muffler bypasses or alike. Maybe sport cats + GHL muffler bypasses.. Will that be a good option?

As for programming do you mean that I should buy a pre-programmed chip from a recognized vendor (such as FVD that Pat did) or do you mean I should take the car to a specialist after everything is installet and have them do a live remap and configure the ECU?

Then again let's remember I'm staying around or below 500hp and this is a street car mostly.. I'm not looking to get crazy on the hp or boost pressure, just want to enjoy the most of a turbo. Coming from an NA ~300hp car to a 400hp turbo is not as tempting as 300 -> 500hp..

As for the rest of the stuff, I have that planned as well.. .. Walrod bushings, Pss10's, GT2 strut brace, Recaro PPs, RS rear carpet kit, heigo half roll cage etc etc...

Carrera GT

For programming, the conventional approach is to rewrite the maps in the factory ECU (for '97, '96's require hardware upgrades) in your car to match the engine modifications. It's possible to buy a modified ECU, but you still need to match the programming to the modifications, so buying a whole ECU would only create a very easy way to reverse the car to stock (and ECUs are not cheap.) I can't add much to what I posted earlier, but cats and cans will help release back pressure. If you've heard a Turbo with bypass pipes, you'll know it's loud. So long as you're happy with that amount of noise (which I find quite livable at highway speeds, but tedious at slow speeds) then bypassing the mufflers will help reduce weight. If you don't need to retain stock engine appearance (such as for emissions testing in California) then you can go to a completely separate left and right system without the "crossed arms" behind the engine. This will save weight and take away rear-hanging weight. I've never used FVD, so I can't comment. I'd advocate a local expert where you can get hands-on support and troubleshooting, but you should find the limited range of mods you're talking about won't bring too many complications. Rest assured, 500hp will the torque of the Turbo will make a 300 hp Carrera feel like a Lada Niva ... : )

pstoppani

Re: Cooling

I have the UMW Stage 1 (k16/k24 hybrid) setup which is good for 450HP on 92 octane and 470ish HP on 96 octane. When driving the car hard at the race track, I found that the Turbo S oil cooler was not sufficient on days over 80F. I had to install a third and larger oil cooler.

Felix

Pete, do you have any 60-130 numbers for your car?

GIA

Viggo,

Currently I have FVD STAGE 2 kit.

I am really happy with it, the only minor part is that I noticed increased lag VS original setup with K16.
For me personally, I prefer low end of K16 while driving on the street. This is my daily driver.
So, I heard that KEVIN has solution: from one side you get K24 Turbine wheel, from another side it gives you decreased lag. This is what he calls K24 HYFLOW Turbine wheel. I really liked this idea, and thinking of asking Kevin to prepare one set for me in the nearset future. For the compressor wheel you can choose several options. The main message here is, that K24 HyFlow will spool up like K16, and the same time you can choose Compressor wheel option too. I suggest call Kevin and he will explain you everything.
I am sure, you will be satisfied.
Regards,

Gia

Kevin

While I would wish that the my K24 HyFlow turbiine wheel would spool as quick as a K16 turbine wheel. It is a optimistic thought. However, it will cut the lag "loss" in half.

One heck of a turbo combination would be the installation of the K24 HyFlow turbine wheel with the new (very efficient) 997GT2 compressor wheel.

pstoppani

Aaaaah, welllll, I tried to get that measurement last October and managed to miss a shift from 3rd to 4th and got 2nd instead... the motor didn't like 9500RPM too well

Waiting for my new motor from Kevin

Felix

Eeek! Sorry to hear of this - hope it's all sorted soon.

eclou

Wow Pete, that is quite a tough pill to swallow. Hopefully you will be whole again

Bass993

Viggo: Some answers to your questions. I did have to buy a 1997 ECU and have it reprogrammed by FVD in Germany to their level 2 kit specs. No big deal getting the ECU out of the car. Just remove the driver seat and you have access to the ECU and wiring harness plug. The 1996 ECU has a piggy back soldered arrangement for a chip by FVD and I found it was unreliable. FVD agreed they have had trouble with these soldered carriers on the 1996 ECU's. I spent around $1500 for the dealer turbo install that included replacing the valve cover gaskets. The turbos were new and around $3300 for the pair. Yes, there is about a 500 to 750 rpm lag in the spool up compared to the K16's. However, the well crafted FVD ECU programming really helps bring these K24's to life and with a vengeance. They have the car pull so hard that you just smile and say Geeez*****! I haven't had a dyno on the car yet but intend to do so shortly. I won't guess on power as the facts will confirm but seat of the pants tells me it is at least 50 to 75 hp but the torque is what really propels you and that is suppose to be around 509 ft/lbs from the FVD site. We'll see soon enough on the dyno. Regards, Pat

zweistein

Hi
I have never driven a K16 993TT. Mine is WLSII, hence K24 and I cannot find a turbo-lag at all. Huge power and very progressive upwards.
Actually the best "improvement"to my car was to put 2 new original porsche pop-off valves into it. Afer this the throttle response was much crisper and I am happy.
I don't know about other Porsche Turbo lag as I am used to my old 911 with a 2.7RS engine with mechanical injection, known for excellent throttle response.
The 993TT is as good in my view and has lots more power.
Where is the lag?

P.S. I know, once I start getting into modifications you cannot stop any more. At least me and that is why I am reluctant to start...

TB993tt

Hi Zweistein and welcome (I've not seen you post before ?) I am thinking that maybe something is "lost in the translation" regarding the term "turbo lag"...

ALL Porsche turbos have turbo lag to some extent but it is a relative term and it is open to interpretation.
Basically the time it takes between pressing the throttle wide open and feeling substantial torque is the "turbo lag" and it can vary from a few seconds on cars with huge turbos to a second or less on a well matched package.

The actual point at which you say "I am now feeling meangiful torque" is also up for interpreation further clouding the issue...

I read your 2.7RS comment with a smile as it was the ownership of a Carrera GT which focused my mind on "throttle response" the CGT is so reactive to the throttle which makes it very lively and the slightest movement in throttle can send the tail flying sideways. This is completely different to a turbo car where you always get a pause and time to feed in the oncoming torque giving you more time to consider sideways antics.

The "lag" issue is close to my heart as it is one element which my builder Schmirler takes very seriously and works very hard to make his turbo creations feel as much like naturally aspirated as possible using highest compression ratios and smallest most efficient KKKs - One test we used for measuring "turbo lag" was the 5-60mph test proposed by Bill S where you let the car trickle along in first gear at idle speed ~5mph then boot the throttle - the time it takes to get to 60mph (or 100mph) is a reasonable test to how your lag is.
Some good reading about that testing here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...&highlight=lag

Even better test is to use the higher gears and do some acceleration runs which effectively shows your boost curve (so not strictly lag since you are already on boost)
That testing is here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...&highlight=lag

As to the 450PS Porsche kit, this does have quite a bit of lag compared to say the K16 430PS kit but it is still a fast effective engine configuartion

zweistein

Hi TB993TT,

thank you for the wellcome, and welcome also to you. I posted a few times, but changed username recently.

You are definetly coming from another liga, CGT is one of the best street legal race cars available. I have never driven one and my financial survival instinct tells me not to venture to buy one (just for my financial situation!). I am coming from the vintage side here and more than in pure measurable performance I am interested in the emotion and looks of the car. That is why I came to the 993TT.
In the future I hope to get more insight in the world of high power and turbo Porsches and I realize that there is unlimited upside potential here. thank you for your forum references.
I assume the 5-60mph test is done in second gear? Correct?

If I want to drive faster I am used to keep the revs up, so I keep engine above 4000rpm (same in 2.7RS) and I shift alot. Maybe it is this driving habbit that makes me not feel a turbo lag.

This is my first year in a Porsche club, so by the end of season I will have driven on several circuits in Italy and I hope to know more.

Best regards

Autobahn

The WLS 2 definitely has a bit more lag than the standard 408 hp version. However, it is not bad at all compared to single turbo cars, e.g. 965. The increased power/torque comes into play at higher revs. You can especially feel this under WOT in higher gears.

RS38

sounds nice
any experiences with this in stock k24 housings?