Feeler - Considering selling
05-31-2008, 02:31 AM
#48
I'm keeping the 993TT. Here's how I feel about the GT3:
Looks - pretty good, very racey, better than any other 997. I'm not in love with the vents in the rear bumper, but those go away in the darker colors such as Cobalt Blue. The car is big, probably similar dimensions to a Honda Accord coupe. It will never have the organic, feminine lines of the 993 - this car is a bit bling, no matter how subtle the options package.
Interior - seems low-rent. The pedals are so cheap looking with the "aluminum" and rubber inserts. The car I really spent time in didn't have the full leather, but the doors, dash, radio panel, and center console reminded me of a rental car. The steering wheel rim is great - alcantara and well shaped - but the spokes have silly plastic covers and the airbag itself could be in any GM product. The shifter is great, but the R-1-2-3-4-5-6 insert is quite ugly and doesn't fit too well. The handbrake comes up with almost no effort and is very flimsy. Since having the 993 I forgot that the handbrake in most cars actually has some give. Overall, the 997 interior is pretty flimsy seeming. The seats, though, are great.
Handling - very neutral. Car turns in effortlessly and can be easily kept on line. The only problem is that it doesn't seem like I'm actually doing anything - the steering wheel requires no effort to be held in one position. In the 993, when I take an uneven corner, I can feel the wheel move in my hands (hit a bump and momentarily lose traction, the wheel gets lighter and turns more; squat and gain traction, the wheel feels heaver and wants to turn towards center). The 997 wheel is so easy to hold in place that there is essentially no feedback as to what the wheels are doing.
Disclaimer: I have only driven the car on the street. It's quite possible that the lack of feedback is due to the same turns possibly being much farther from the 997's limits than the 993 (eg. that same 90mph sweeper uses 80% of the 993's traction versus 60% of the 997's).
Braking - the pedal in the 997 is quite soft for the first inch or so of travel before firming up. The steel brakes are more than adequate, but I prefer the harder feedback of the 993.
Clutch - engagement is very near the top, which is not a problem for me (upshifts can be made very quickly). The pedal effort is quite high, seemingly more than necessary. It's as if Porsche said, "This car isn't visceral or involving enough - people need to think they're in a race car. Let's make the clutch very heavy."
Acceleration - okay. Doesn't seem as strong as the 993TT, but certainly adequate. The e-gas (throttle-by-wire), however, is awful. It is fine while in gear, but I can sense the delay when revving the engine on downshift or when accelerating from a stop. I'm sure I could get used to it, but depressing the "gas" with the engine stopped and realizing there's no mechanical feeling is weird.
Sound - the exhaust is great, but the valve opening is so artificial and obnoxious. I hate the way Porsche says the sport button adds mid-range torque - of course you get mid-range torque when you open a valve that intentionally restricts the engine's exhaust flow.
Value - $120k for a used 997 GT3 just isn't worth it. Guys on the -7 GT3 board are just commenting that their cars handle as well as the previous 996 GT3, and the power difference isn't very drastic. I can't stand the looks of the 996, but $55k for better looks and 35hp? Hard to swallow.
So, I'm keeping the 993TT. I'd like to add a car to the stable, though - can you say Exige S 240? At some point, I'll probably do it.
Looks - pretty good, very racey, better than any other 997. I'm not in love with the vents in the rear bumper, but those go away in the darker colors such as Cobalt Blue. The car is big, probably similar dimensions to a Honda Accord coupe. It will never have the organic, feminine lines of the 993 - this car is a bit bling, no matter how subtle the options package.
Interior - seems low-rent. The pedals are so cheap looking with the "aluminum" and rubber inserts. The car I really spent time in didn't have the full leather, but the doors, dash, radio panel, and center console reminded me of a rental car. The steering wheel rim is great - alcantara and well shaped - but the spokes have silly plastic covers and the airbag itself could be in any GM product. The shifter is great, but the R-1-2-3-4-5-6 insert is quite ugly and doesn't fit too well. The handbrake comes up with almost no effort and is very flimsy. Since having the 993 I forgot that the handbrake in most cars actually has some give. Overall, the 997 interior is pretty flimsy seeming. The seats, though, are great.
Handling - very neutral. Car turns in effortlessly and can be easily kept on line. The only problem is that it doesn't seem like I'm actually doing anything - the steering wheel requires no effort to be held in one position. In the 993, when I take an uneven corner, I can feel the wheel move in my hands (hit a bump and momentarily lose traction, the wheel gets lighter and turns more; squat and gain traction, the wheel feels heaver and wants to turn towards center). The 997 wheel is so easy to hold in place that there is essentially no feedback as to what the wheels are doing.
Disclaimer: I have only driven the car on the street. It's quite possible that the lack of feedback is due to the same turns possibly being much farther from the 997's limits than the 993 (eg. that same 90mph sweeper uses 80% of the 993's traction versus 60% of the 997's).
Braking - the pedal in the 997 is quite soft for the first inch or so of travel before firming up. The steel brakes are more than adequate, but I prefer the harder feedback of the 993.
Clutch - engagement is very near the top, which is not a problem for me (upshifts can be made very quickly). The pedal effort is quite high, seemingly more than necessary. It's as if Porsche said, "This car isn't visceral or involving enough - people need to think they're in a race car. Let's make the clutch very heavy."
Acceleration - okay. Doesn't seem as strong as the 993TT, but certainly adequate. The e-gas (throttle-by-wire), however, is awful. It is fine while in gear, but I can sense the delay when revving the engine on downshift or when accelerating from a stop. I'm sure I could get used to it, but depressing the "gas" with the engine stopped and realizing there's no mechanical feeling is weird.
Sound - the exhaust is great, but the valve opening is so artificial and obnoxious. I hate the way Porsche says the sport button adds mid-range torque - of course you get mid-range torque when you open a valve that intentionally restricts the engine's exhaust flow.
Value - $120k for a used 997 GT3 just isn't worth it. Guys on the -7 GT3 board are just commenting that their cars handle as well as the previous 996 GT3, and the power difference isn't very drastic. I can't stand the looks of the 996, but $55k for better looks and 35hp? Hard to swallow.
So, I'm keeping the 993TT. I'd like to add a car to the stable, though - can you say Exige S 240? At some point, I'll probably do it.
Having a 993 Turbo and a 997 GT3 rusting in the garage, here's some comments from the peanut gallery:
The 996 and 997 "dwarf" the 993, which in turn makes the early 911 look diminutive side by side. But please do not ever again compare a Porsche to a Honda or your remains will require DNA identification. By the way, Cobalt is a fairly light shade of blue and tends to highlight the GT3 lines, not hiding the various holes.
Don't dwell on 997 (let alone 996) cosmetics -- these cars can be brought up to the "feel" of a $100K car, but the real value in the car is the machine itself. Suffice it to say that the 997 body holds it's ground next to the 993 and it grows on you. I enjoy finding it in the driveway and that's the litmus test for me.
With a little more road or track time behind the wheel, you'd adapt yourself to the dynamics of the 997. It doesn't have the immediate "hewn from a single billet" feel of the 993, but once in flight, it delivers its chapter to the lineage of the truly great 911's. Choosing between them would call on the wisdom of kings and personally, I choose the 993, but I've had "over MSRP" offers that would pay the mortgage for a few months and I've chosen to keep the bloody GT3. Damn thing. Not that I'm selling my 993, just that the GT3 has earned its place in the garage and the thing that will make me sell it is the economics of the car sitting in the garage doing nothing, not that I don't want to drive the car.
Back to the comparisons.
The GT3 brakes in steel are all a track day or time trial driver could ever need, but the ceramics transform the cars "stand it on its nose" ability. Quite amazing. Having owned one with and one without ceramics, I'm at a loss to explain how the car performs with remarkably stronger braking using the ceramics with the car otherwise the same (especially with the same front tires and same driver with the same foot on the pedal.) I've flushed them, bled them, used the same fluid and still have no question the ceramics just pull the rabbit out of the 120 mph hat.
Stock "big reds" are great on the street but not up to the job on the track, especially if you delve into the engine compartment and extract another 100hp+ with commensurate torque increases.
For throttle control, driving, shifting, balancing the car, you'll soon adjust to the car and it will become invisible.
For exhaust note, just choose a 3rd muffler delete or complete header/exhaust replacement -- you'll be driving to the soundtrack of a Cup car. I've always enjoyed the 997 GT3 note (stock) but with some tweaks, it becomes part of the joy of driving the car and experiencing it sing its high notes out past 8000 rpm is a joy.
In terms of value, each to his own, but I completely agree that if you're after a turn key factory street car that's a weapon on the track, the 997 doesn't have it over the 996 and certainly doesn't merit the dollars. I made the choice between the 996 and 997 very easily in the end because I enjoy the 997 all round and from all aspects while I've never come to care much for the 996 appearance even though the GT3 raises the bar for 996's and with the full leather cabin in my car, it was not to be sniffed at. Still, I didn't like the "Boxster" exhaust note on either ~6 or ~7, so that's something I had to change.
In no uncertain terms, the 997 has simplified the 911 handling "improbability drive" and it's a faster 911 than the 993 (lump for lump) and I'm still in the camp that says the 993 is "too soft" of a 911. I compare the 993 to the 964 and relish the days of putting together some good driving in my old RS America. But still, I've grown accustomed to the power of the 993. The 997 with 415hp is marvelous. The 993 with even more hp and a lot more torque is even more marvelousness.
As for the Exige S, I'd only say try before you buy. I've seen two or three of them owned and sold by 911 drivers, so I don't imagine they turn out to be a fulfilling choice. From what I've gathered, you might seriously consider a 996 GT3 already set up for the track. I'd venture to suggest you could find a good one from a local PCA or Rennlister, track it for a season and if need be, sell it with little depreciation to speak of.
Thinking about the buying and the selling of these cars, I'd say we're in a depressed market for the 993 Turbo. Selling now might find the car 10% below value. If anything, I'm encouraging people to shop around and find great 993's (Turbo or otherwise) as they become increasingly difficult to find and yet the current market seems soft. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I haven't got someone beating my door down with a $80K in cash, I'm not sure it's the right market.
If you love the current car for its paint and cabin trim (and you seem to give it high marks for condition and for mechanical condition) then selling exposes you to the time and cost to replace the car, if ever. Conversely, if you're not wedded to this car and part of selling is the contemplation that you'd want to otherwise upgrade it (mechanically, aesthetically) then it could well be to your advantage to sell now, experience a different car and then keep yourself open to the opportunity to return to the 993 when luck would have it.
Well, as you can see, I agonize over these choices sometimes and I'm sure many of us question our sanity while we question the decision to buy and sell a 911. In short: I'm pleased to hear another 993 Turbo owner sat on the fence and then decided not to sell. And for what it's worth, I'd say don't underestimate the 997 or the 996 GT3 and don't be thinking the grass is greener in a pocket rocket track toy.
05-31-2008, 07:30 AM
#49
Intermediate
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Carolina
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I sold my 994 C4S Cab 2 months ago because all of that technology left me feeling "unfulfilled". 4 days ago I bought a 993TT and simply cannot wait to get my first "real" Porsche (it's on a truck on its way to a new home). I'd give it a lot of thought.
