ScottMellor

OK Here is the Andial dyno sheet I have..

JJayB

Toby,
That would put my 510 hp car at the same power to weight as a GT3 cup car which has real porsche horsepower. I believe Sir John Gordon posted some video's which would put that theory in question.

CP

Chris,

Welcome and that's a Hot car. Makes my BTR with a measely 426 HP looks wimpy. Jeff is right. This thread is very depressing. Too many incredible cars dripping with HP.

CP

Droops83

Nice car, thanks for sharing. You made a nice choice. We have a customer w/ an Andial 3.8tt, who tracks it, and he blew the engine. Turns out he had not seen or ignored the notice that Andial sent to its 3.8tt customers advising to upgrade from the original Thielert ECU to a better, safer Bosch one. He was running race gas, but apparently detonation wasn't the issue, Andial says the old ECU can make the car run dangerously lean. The #2 and 3 cylinders/heads had a big chunk blown out of em. Pics on this thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=andial

Another issue is that the sealing area on the 3.8 heads/barrels is dangerously thin. On our customer's engine, the bottom cooling fins on the heads were NOT welded by Andial, which is something I until then assumed that Andial did on all 3.8 engines. Since I am not the one who rebuilt the top end and correspond w/ Andial, I did not get the opportunity to ask them.

Suffice it to say, we rebuilt the top end, with welded heads, flamerings and the new ECU, and $30k later our customer is back on the road (and track!) and happy. It even passed smog!

Chris, I do not mean to scare you, only 2 or 3 out of all the Andial 3.8s built failed according to them. Just make sure your car has the updated ECU!!! Definitely upgrade the suspension, our customer's is stock and the car defnitely overpowers the chassis. He does run DOT racing tires and slightly larger 2 piece front rotors, however. . . .

---

Chris Andropoulos
Schneider Autohaus
Santa Barbara, CA

TB993tt

Jim
I think power to weight ratio based on a GT3s peak number is irrelevant with the area under the curve of a 993tt turbo motor - like how my car running 520hp was as fast as a CGT in bald acceleration up to 140mph (on vid) -try looking at your power to weight ratio at each point 5000rpm, 5250, 5500, 5750, 6000 etc........ compared to the GT3 and you get the picture -but you knew that

Please.......a Ruf Turbo R is mega fast, we know that. A ~9sec 60-130 is as fast as a CGT.....I am interested purely in the K16 issue having (as some of you may remember) spent a lot of time and money tooling around on the premise that magic K16 based units were going to give me 550-600hp - this didn't happen because K16 based units blow hot air when they get out of their efficiency range on the 993tt (which seems to be at the 510hp level)

We now have the tools to move the debate on. There are plenty of documented 100-200kph (62.1mph -124.4mph) acceleration times for full weight 4WD 993tts so lets get the AX22s, Driftboxes into the hands of the new owners and find out what the K16s are capable of ?

Scott
Thanks for posting the dyno curves - I guess with the new Motronic ECU the competition option is no more ?
All I would comment on the dyno curves is that if that competition curve is real Porsche hp then my (self proclaimed) world record title is not going to last very long

ScottMellor

Talking about blowing hot air. On the day I toasted my VC on the dyno, I ran my car back to back with a car that was running Kevin's K-16s. I was standing behind both cars watching the pulls. My car spooled up and did it's thing with no observable light emanating fron the turbos.. Adison's with the k-16s turbos glowed red hot and lit the ground. Most other-worldly. I have no idea what that means.

JJayB

I would bet your customer forgot the admonition to use race gas ONLY on the high boost program. Or was it his son who forgot.

JJayB

Toby,
There is no question that the little bitty k16 need to work hard up top. My venue for tracking the car is not exactaly like the cool fatherland, and our antiquated air cooled motors need kuhl air for their maximum perforance.
I do see higher temps on the track that must take its toll on hp, thank god there's a lot of torque in the 3.8's. BTW, I would be curious as to what intercooler temps you see on your more spirited runs. I've seen as high as 143 f. on a 98 degree day. Normally 120 f after a 25 minute session. in 85 degree weather.

I have raced fender to fender not just porsche's but Hennesey Vipers reputed to be 600 hp, Lingenfelter Corvetts with certifed 550 hp motors and a new 2900 lbs race ZO6's that dyno'd 550 hp. It just happens to be a co-incidence that my 3400 lbs 510 hp (by some standards) is able to stay ahead of these vehicles on the track.

Andial does have a 600 hp motoronic ecu that can only be used with race gas, and you must sign in blood that you understand this. I do not have it......yet.

Droops83

Yes, this is what I assumed after I saw the compression numbers on cyls 2 and 3 right after the car came in, but we could smell race gas and if you look at the pics on the link to the thread I posted, there isn't any evidence of detonation. It appears the culprit was the heads lifting, probably brought on by super high head temps from a lean mixture and all that boost, and helped by the razor thin sealing area of the unwelded heads (not enough mass to absorb the intense heat).

Our customer's car had a Theilert ECU, and it had a rocker switch on the dash to switch between 91 octane and race gas. The output was supposed to be ~550 on pump gas and over 600 hp on race gas, and I believe it, I drove it awhile back when he had race gas in the tank. The new Bosch ECU I think is "only" 550 or so on 91 oct and has only one map . . . JJayB and all those who own a car w/ this engine, you are all lucky bastards!

BTW JJayB do you have any vids of your car on track, I'd love to see it in action!

---Chris A.

TB993tt

Jim
I know that some of us are complete keyboard racers compared with your goodself, and as always due respect - always love to hear of you flying the 993tt flag

I guess it is possible that Andial got these higher numbers by running to closer limits (of meltdown) than the conservative stuff that Porsche/RS do, and if a few engines have let go then this sounds feasible.
I remember RS used to cast doubt on the Ruf R 490 engines saying they had a problem with leaking heads (probably sour grapes but possibly an indication of philosphy).

As for I/C temps, they will always get much hotter on a track compared to the constant flow of the street - my new I/C limits the inlet to ~25degC (80degF) above ambient -bit wasted on me I'm afraid, you make me feel like a fraud

The new Bosch ECUs with the knock sensing will definately help limit these engines "properly" and in the process limit the power drastically IMO (510hp )

Look forward to some 100-200, 60-130 numbers to move the debate forwards

Acropora

+1
Jimmy, if it ever gets cold here I hope to have a vid/ax22 run w/ some additional engine and weightloss mods. Still working on getting 380mm rotors into an 18" wheel.

JJayB

I belive that Sir John Gordon video'd a day at WSIR from his cup car that was posted, but I don't know who hosted. There is of course the famous Jimmy the felon, on PCH, (try video google Carrera GT vs. Gallardo vs. Porsche 911)
BTW, I know your customers Dan's a good friend.

Air Kuul TT

JJayB,

Was it with a Yellow Lambo and gray CGT?... Awesome!!!

JJayB

Like I told the DA, I have no present recollection.
He forgot to ask if I had any past recollection...and I seem to recall the Carrera to be a silver one.

Air Kuul TT