993 C4S vs Turbo
05-11-2003, 03:41 AM
#1
Wordsmith
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
993 C4S vs Turbo
So, what's the exact mechanical specification differences between the C4S and the Turbo?
Transmission strength in design and components?
Suspension strength, design, components, tuning?
spring weights?
damper rates?
chassis stiffness, design, construction?
Steering?
Weight?
If someone dropped a 500hp turbo or super charged engine into a C4S, what would need reinforcement to meet or exceed Turbo spec?
ps.
yes, I've searched this and other forums.
I do know of the solid not hollow turbo twist wheels
and the wing on the engine deck lid
Transmission strength in design and components?
Suspension strength, design, components, tuning?
spring weights?
damper rates?
chassis stiffness, design, construction?
Steering?
Weight?
If someone dropped a 500hp turbo or super charged engine into a C4S, what would need reinforcement to meet or exceed Turbo spec?
ps.
yes, I've searched this and other forums.
I do know of the solid not hollow turbo twist wheels
and the wing on the engine deck lid
05-11-2003, 12:05 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
I'd also be interested in the answers to these questions. However it wouldn't surprise me much, what with Porsche being such a small company, that they did as few special versions of parts as possible, and just built the cars out their parts bins. I would expect the C4S to be exactly the same specs as the TT, except for the 3 parts you noted, which they could lift from other models (err, well the solid-spokes had to be made for the C2S and C4S).
Remember the old 914-6 and the 1976 912e? Porsche had some extra components lying around, and slapped out some "new" models.
Remember the old 914-6 and the 1976 912e? Porsche had some extra components lying around, and slapped out some "new" models.
05-11-2003, 01:16 PM
#3
6 speed transmission on the C4S was a G50/20 (G50/21 for RoW); transmission on the TT was the G64/51. Differentials were also different I believe. Brakes were the same but rear swawbars and spring rates were different I think. Weight of the TT was 3465 lbs, I forgot what it was for the C4S.
05-11-2003, 01:51 PM
#5
Wordsmith
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ca993twin:
<strong>Remember the old 914-6 and the 1976 912e? Porsche had some extra components lying around, and slapped out some "new" models.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I don't remember a 1976 912e.
<strong>Remember the old 914-6 and the 1976 912e? Porsche had some extra components lying around, and slapped out some "new" models.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I don't remember a 1976 912e.
05-11-2003, 06:06 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
The weight numbers I've seen posted for a 96/96 TT are 3307 lbs. Maybe 3465 with driver?
912e was a 911 body with a VW type IV 4 cylinder engine. A slug.
912e was a 911 body with a VW type IV 4 cylinder engine. A slug.
Trending Topics
05-11-2003, 11:21 PM
#8
Turbo, Mo30 suspension stock, optional on 4s Bigger halfshafts on the Turbo(same in RS and RSCS)
Gearbox differences mentioned above. Viken posted gear ratios recently on the 993 board. Turbo has beefier ring and pinion(same in 993 Gt2) All I remember off the top of my head but am sure there is more...
Gearbox differences mentioned above. Viken posted gear ratios recently on the 993 board. Turbo has beefier ring and pinion(same in 993 Gt2) All I remember off the top of my head but am sure there is more...
05-12-2003, 02:49 AM
#9
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ca993twin:
<strong>The weight numbers I've seen posted for a 96/96 TT are 3307 lbs. Maybe 3465 with driver?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I got the 3465 number from the Red Book
<strong>The weight numbers I've seen posted for a 96/96 TT are 3307 lbs. Maybe 3465 with driver?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I got the 3465 number from the Red Book
05-13-2003, 12:19 AM
#10
Pro
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Bethesda, Md
Posts: 533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW, I checked with RUF on the Turbo conversion for the C4S and the difference in price for the same outcome (490hp) was 21.5k Euros. So, they do switch a lot more parts on the C4S.
05-13-2003, 05:08 AM
#11
Wordsmith
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ca993twin:
<strong>912e was a 911 body with a VW type IV 4 cylinder engine. A slug.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">But in '76? A 912?
You mean '67 maybe?
<strong>912e was a 911 body with a VW type IV 4 cylinder engine. A slug.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">But in '76? A 912?
You mean '67 maybe?
05-13-2003, 05:15 AM
#12
Wordsmith
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, I didn't know about the half-shaft difference.
Anyway, I'm looking at a '96 C4S with a factory '96 Turbo motor and transmission (I'll have to ask if they swapped out the half-shafts for the beefier Turbo units) with GT2 turbos and fuel pump.
All work done at a Porsche dealership. Photo of engine in the crate. Records. Receipts. Seemingly very tight driving. It has Turbo S euro-spec springs and it seems to come on boost smooth and strong. It has a mechanical VDO boost gauge showing boost come on around 3000, then rush on at 4000 to 14.7psi (aka 1 bar) all the way to the red-line.
It also has an Andial boost controller (variable from 0.8 to 1.0 bar) and a Turbo S make-over (incredibly, including factory body parts in metal for the holes in the rear wheel arches) with perfect condition Polar Silver Metallic paint and 10,000 miles.
Asking $70K
Worth?
Is this a Turbo S at half price? (okay, I'm not serious about that comparison and yes, 50% of the market value of a Turbo S is the VIN factor)
Is this a C4S hybrid that will never have a value in the market other than what the last guy paid for it? (I'm very big on avoiding cars that depreciate quickly)
Did I mention perfect black sports seats?
Did I mention Polar Silver?
But that price just seems over the top. No?
Any and all advice (even the stuff not fit to post much less print) welcome.
Anyway, I'm looking at a '96 C4S with a factory '96 Turbo motor and transmission (I'll have to ask if they swapped out the half-shafts for the beefier Turbo units) with GT2 turbos and fuel pump.
All work done at a Porsche dealership. Photo of engine in the crate. Records. Receipts. Seemingly very tight driving. It has Turbo S euro-spec springs and it seems to come on boost smooth and strong. It has a mechanical VDO boost gauge showing boost come on around 3000, then rush on at 4000 to 14.7psi (aka 1 bar) all the way to the red-line.
It also has an Andial boost controller (variable from 0.8 to 1.0 bar) and a Turbo S make-over (incredibly, including factory body parts in metal for the holes in the rear wheel arches) with perfect condition Polar Silver Metallic paint and 10,000 miles.
Asking $70K
Worth?
Is this a Turbo S at half price? (okay, I'm not serious about that comparison and yes, 50% of the market value of a Turbo S is the VIN factor)
Is this a C4S hybrid that will never have a value in the market other than what the last guy paid for it? (I'm very big on avoiding cars that depreciate quickly)
Did I mention perfect black sports seats?
Did I mention Polar Silver?
But that price just seems over the top. No?
Any and all advice (even the stuff not fit to post much less print) welcome.
05-13-2003, 05:55 AM
#13
I think the proper comparison would be to compare this C4S to a 993TT not a TTS, and discount from there. How much would a 10K mile silver MY96 TT go for? High $60s, low/mid $70s? I'd start from there and adjust +/- for the mods. If it were me, I'd start at $61-63K.
Too bad it's not Speed Yellow...then I'd have to seriously consider it
Let me know if you decide to pass on it...I might have to consider it anyways <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
Too bad it's not Speed Yellow...then I'd have to seriously consider it
Let me know if you decide to pass on it...I might have to consider it anyways <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
05-13-2003, 12:32 PM
#14
Nordschleife Master
CarerraGT,
No, not the early 912 with the 4 cylinder 356 Porsche engine (1966 -> 1969). In 1976, Porsche found themselves with some extra VW Type IV engines and stuffed them into 911 bodies, and labeled them "912E". A bad day, indeed.
Resale on a C4S with a TT engine and turbo S body work? Anybody's guess, since there is such a small market for a car like that. It will never have the resale value of a factory-built, documented TT, and don't even think about comparing it to a turbo S. But that doesn't mean its not the perfect car for you, and that you will enjoy the hell out of it. Just don't count on strong resale.
No, not the early 912 with the 4 cylinder 356 Porsche engine (1966 -> 1969). In 1976, Porsche found themselves with some extra VW Type IV engines and stuffed them into 911 bodies, and labeled them "912E". A bad day, indeed.
Resale on a C4S with a TT engine and turbo S body work? Anybody's guess, since there is such a small market for a car like that. It will never have the resale value of a factory-built, documented TT, and don't even think about comparing it to a turbo S. But that doesn't mean its not the perfect car for you, and that you will enjoy the hell out of it. Just don't count on strong resale.