RUF turbo R dyno sheet (before tune up)
10-31-2006, 08:05 PM
#16
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Now that I am an expert, I've added the "Generic Ruf Turbo R" engine dyno chart that appears in their catalog, and overlaid the others. What do you guys think of this data?
11-01-2006, 12:32 PM
#19
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Jean,
Yes, the last Dyno run (Kevin's Chassis 10/06) was done on a chassis dyno, and measures RWHP. The other 3 are flywheel HP. I would not expect Ruf to have more than one engine dyno, but I have no real information if they were the same dynos. The "Generic Ruf Dyno" is the data from their catalog decribing their Turbo R conversion.
What I think is interesting is how Kevin's chassis dyno readings are nicely related (but a bit lower, naturally) to the 2000 Ruf engine dyno. The interesting (to me, anyway) piece is the difference between the 1996 and the 2000 runs. That looks like a change of cams or turbos or something... they lost some bottom end grunt to gain a bit of top-end power. Odd.
Yes, the last Dyno run (Kevin's Chassis 10/06) was done on a chassis dyno, and measures RWHP. The other 3 are flywheel HP. I would not expect Ruf to have more than one engine dyno, but I have no real information if they were the same dynos. The "Generic Ruf Dyno" is the data from their catalog decribing their Turbo R conversion.
What I think is interesting is how Kevin's chassis dyno readings are nicely related (but a bit lower, naturally) to the 2000 Ruf engine dyno. The interesting (to me, anyway) piece is the difference between the 1996 and the 2000 runs. That looks like a change of cams or turbos or something... they lost some bottom end grunt to gain a bit of top-end power. Odd.
11-02-2006, 04:31 AM
#20
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I spoke with the original owner today... he shed lots of light on the situation...
The purple line (1996 engine dyno) was done in dec 1996, and was the original turbo R conversion with STOCK exhaust.
the yellow line (2000 RUF engine dyno) was done in Oct 2000, and the only change was a K&N air filter and the RUF center exit exhaust, and new ECU programming. it is down approx 20 ft lb tq average from 3500 rpm till 5500 rpm, but it is + 80 ft lb tq better at redline (added 1400-1500 useable rpm up top I assume). the P/O says the exhaust diameter was increased to 3" at this time.
the Teal green line (2000 rear wheel dyno) was done Oct 20 2006, and the interesting part is it is exactly 15% less than the RUF engine dyno (year 2000) at the 2000 RPM --- and exactly 10% less than the RUF engine dyno (year 2000) at 6000 rpm... this seems to be the "acceptable" estimate for driveline loss calculation from the driveline. after seeing the almost identical power curve, and the engine dyno numbers being exactly 10-15% higher than the "at the wheels" numbers I'd say the dyno I went to was "dead on"... not inflated what so ever...
the dark blue line (estimated from the RUF sales liturature) is almost perfectly matched to the ORIGINAL Turbo R dyno sheet with the stock exhaust system.
I'd say all this data, from diffrent years, and at least one diffrent dyno (and at the wheels) matches up pretty well and solidify's the power being made with a normal RUF Turbo R.
-INTERESTING STUFF:
-the previous owner says this is the only NON RUF VIN car Porsche to have ever been fitted with a CTR2 style center exhaust.
-the conversion was completed late in 1995 -the car had 800 miles on the clock when it was converted.
-a leak down test just a few days ago (39k miles) had 2% - 4% max leak down on all cylinders.
-the only thing done inside the engine was cams.
BTW- as soon as the car is back on the road I will do some 60-130mph times... believe me, I am getting very anxious!
I will also dyno the car after the tune up... I will be logging A/F ratios with my new innovate data logger installed, including logging RPM, boost, and acceleration/deceleration G forces.... should be interesting!
(it just got brand new brakes all four corners -15" rotors in the front/ 14" rotors in the rear!)
The purple line (1996 engine dyno) was done in dec 1996, and was the original turbo R conversion with STOCK exhaust.
the yellow line (2000 RUF engine dyno) was done in Oct 2000, and the only change was a K&N air filter and the RUF center exit exhaust, and new ECU programming. it is down approx 20 ft lb tq average from 3500 rpm till 5500 rpm, but it is + 80 ft lb tq better at redline (added 1400-1500 useable rpm up top I assume). the P/O says the exhaust diameter was increased to 3" at this time.
the Teal green line (2000 rear wheel dyno) was done Oct 20 2006, and the interesting part is it is exactly 15% less than the RUF engine dyno (year 2000) at the 2000 RPM --- and exactly 10% less than the RUF engine dyno (year 2000) at 6000 rpm... this seems to be the "acceptable" estimate for driveline loss calculation from the driveline. after seeing the almost identical power curve, and the engine dyno numbers being exactly 10-15% higher than the "at the wheels" numbers I'd say the dyno I went to was "dead on"... not inflated what so ever...
the dark blue line (estimated from the RUF sales liturature) is almost perfectly matched to the ORIGINAL Turbo R dyno sheet with the stock exhaust system.
I'd say all this data, from diffrent years, and at least one diffrent dyno (and at the wheels) matches up pretty well and solidify's the power being made with a normal RUF Turbo R.
-INTERESTING STUFF:
-the previous owner says this is the only NON RUF VIN car Porsche to have ever been fitted with a CTR2 style center exhaust.
-the conversion was completed late in 1995 -the car had 800 miles on the clock when it was converted.
-a leak down test just a few days ago (39k miles) had 2% - 4% max leak down on all cylinders.
-the only thing done inside the engine was cams.
BTW- as soon as the car is back on the road I will do some 60-130mph times... believe me, I am getting very anxious!
I will also dyno the car after the tune up... I will be logging A/F ratios with my new innovate data logger installed, including logging RPM, boost, and acceleration/deceleration G forces.... should be interesting!
(it just got brand new brakes all four corners -15" rotors in the front/ 14" rotors in the rear!)
11-02-2006, 04:45 AM
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11-02-2006, 04:48 AM
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RUF front oil cooler modification. notice the opening for the exiting air stream
car w/ brakes installed
close up of oil cooler air exit
new lightweight clutch
car w/ brakes installed
close up of oil cooler air exit
new lightweight clutch
11-02-2006, 04:51 AM
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RUF CT2 exhaust
RUF CTR2 pic # 2
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/picture_027.jpg
RUF Turbo's 16/24’s- with Ultimate Motor Werks upgraded wastegate springs
NOT a ZERO CLEARANCE turbo
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/picture_031.jpg
RUF CTR2 pic # 2
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/picture_027.jpg
RUF Turbo's 16/24’s- with Ultimate Motor Werks upgraded wastegate springs
NOT a ZERO CLEARANCE turbo
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/picture_031.jpg
11-02-2006, 05:34 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by Ima2nr
but it is + 80 ft lb tq better at redline (added 1400-1500 useable rpm up top I assume)
Just wondering about the centre exit exhaust, this is not the same as other CTR2 centre exit exhausts I have seen which seemed to have one big muffler in the middle - surely the extra distance your gases have to flow from the stockish (looking) side mufflers is not doing the exhaust efficiency any favours (although looks great
)Great pics and detail, thanks for sharing
11-02-2006, 06:43 AM
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the +80 ft lb tq at redline is inrelationship to the power curve that dropped off sharply with the old configuration. the power just died above 5500 rpm and started to climb back down the slope...
I know the power had gone flat at the top rpm, it jst wasn't falling of the map like before.
I know the power had gone flat at the top rpm, it jst wasn't falling of the map like before.
11-02-2006, 11:47 AM
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Kevin, nice pictures.. If you look at the compressor wheels you can see the brown staining. This is a indication of oil being passed thru the system. Please also note that the bypass/vent hoses have been removed and plugged off..
Make sure that you boost gauge is installed.. You might need to back off the wastegate adjustment 2mm for a bench mark..
With your engine and tranny out, did you install a new engine wire harness? Now is definately the time to do it..
BTW, your clutch looks good!!
Make sure that you boost gauge is installed.. You might need to back off the wastegate adjustment 2mm for a bench mark..
With your engine and tranny out, did you install a new engine wire harness? Now is definately the time to do it..
BTW, your clutch looks good!!
11-02-2006, 12:22 PM
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from KEVIN- quote- "Please also note that the bypass/vent hoses have been removed and plugged off"
do you mean for the wastegate? this picture was taken right after putting the springs in, and they have not reatached the small vacuum hoses yet...
and kevin? where do you see "brown" indicating oil has passed thru? teach me- Obi Wan Kanobi!
do you mean for the wastegate? this picture was taken right after putting the springs in, and they have not reatached the small vacuum hoses yet...
and kevin? where do you see "brown" indicating oil has passed thru? teach me- Obi Wan Kanobi!
11-02-2006, 01:04 PM
#29
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Kevin, if you look at the sump tank which is just below the turbocharger.. There is a plug in the upper right hand side of the tank.. This is normally the vent line that goes up to the top of the engine and plumbs into the intake manifold..
When I see burnt oil stains on the compressor wheel this is a indication of present/past oil issues.. One could have over filled the engine, one could have had a failed Mahle filter.. Make sure that your Mechanic installs a Genuine Porsche oil filter.. Not a OEM filter.. Or turbocharger failure..
The effect is oil is being blown up into the intercooler, when you shift, the Bypass Valves dump the charge air back into the inlet air stream. This will get sucked and compressed by the compressor wheel. The heat generated in compression will turn the compressor wheel the burnt brown.
It looks like your condition has been resolved previously. Your mechanic will be able to tell you if you had any oil in the IC or inlet air turbes..
Please note, that in these conditions oil will also coat your MAF.. Oil on the MAF will cause boost issues!!!
When I see burnt oil stains on the compressor wheel this is a indication of present/past oil issues.. One could have over filled the engine, one could have had a failed Mahle filter.. Make sure that your Mechanic installs a Genuine Porsche oil filter.. Not a OEM filter.. Or turbocharger failure..
The effect is oil is being blown up into the intercooler, when you shift, the Bypass Valves dump the charge air back into the inlet air stream. This will get sucked and compressed by the compressor wheel. The heat generated in compression will turn the compressor wheel the burnt brown.
It looks like your condition has been resolved previously. Your mechanic will be able to tell you if you had any oil in the IC or inlet air turbes..
Please note, that in these conditions oil will also coat your MAF.. Oil on the MAF will cause boost issues!!!
11-02-2006, 01:08 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
Kevin (Ima2nr),
First of all, you're gonna have to change your name... way too confusing with all the Kevins.
Second, your car is amazing. Any chance for better lighting on that oil cooler and ducting picture? That is not the way Ruf ended up doing the Turbo R coolers... another area where your car is unique.
And Third... holy moley those brakes are fabulous. I hope they work at least half as good as they look. I'm really starting to dislike you.
Kevin (UMW),
Do I need those wastegate springs? Why? Can a simple doofus install them, or is this best done by an expert?
First of all, you're gonna have to change your name... way too confusing with all the Kevins.
Second, your car is amazing. Any chance for better lighting on that oil cooler and ducting picture? That is not the way Ruf ended up doing the Turbo R coolers... another area where your car is unique.
And Third... holy moley those brakes are fabulous. I hope they work at least half as good as they look. I'm really starting to dislike you.
Kevin (UMW),
Do I need those wastegate springs? Why? Can a simple doofus install them, or is this best done by an expert?