Jim Morton

Tom:

For my TT I am running PSS-9's with the RS Front and GT2 rear sway bar. In general the bits work fine, although I wish the PSS-9 had more rebound control. I have tracked the car as well as toured it for several days in a row. I like my current setup as a good comprimise. I am working on an update, but it will be a few more months before I dive into that. I am looking towards Moton, but there are things I want to address about the Motons before I put them on my multi-pupose car.

From a driver / handling perspective, I have driven many 993's with PSS-9 as well as a few with other setups. FWIW, the setup of the suspenstion is so variable, the ride height, corner balance with all aspects of alignment all have so much to do with the success of the 993 suspension feel, it is hard to make simple comparisons of shocks / springs without ensuring the cars being compared were setup anywhere close to the same.

One of the larger vsariables I have found is addressing worn control arm bushings as well as getting someone who can handle the Kinematic Toe as part of thje alignment regime.

My offer still stands for a "Starbuck's" meet or other casual discussion sometome. Too much to cover in RL postings...I don't type that good ! Let me know.

Regards

SPR

I bought the trg bar (supposedly bigger than the gt2) and went to have it installed. They said it wouldn't fit. I even bought different links and still they said wouldn't work??? We then bought an RS bar and then that evidently fit just fine. (the car is my father's). Is there some trick to getting the trg bar which is adjustable and for all intrinsic purpose the same as the gt2 I am told, just bigger, to fit without issue, and are the drop links necessary???? Thanks!

Jean

My front TRG sway bar was bent when I bought it and I did not know it until it broke the hub link. A German race shop told me about it, I thought initially that it was not properly installed. In any case I would go with an RS original bar and avoid headaches, I doubt many of us here would feel the difference. The thicker sway bars are about the icing on the cake of a properly tuned suspension setup, a slightly off kinematic toe adjustment will throw everything out of balance. I have driven my car fast for a while with the front bar disconnected when it broke and I loved the handling. Don't do that at home though!

Hans Frisak

I appreciate that the PSS9 is a compromise for road and track, but I agree, I still think they are too soft for serious track driving.

I have been in contact with Bilstein and will send my dampers to to them to replace some parts (smaller valves I presume). This will make them harder, with the same possibilities for adjustment, but all harder. This will cost 100 euro (120 U$) each, plus cost for disassembly, assembly and freight.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hans:

I'd agree,...for SERIOUS track driving and experienced drivers, PSS-9's (revalved or otherwise) do not do the job. Further, they do not come close to a good Moton setup,.....

The valving functionality between Bilstein's and Moton (and JRZ) are totally different and one really needs the ability to change the rebound & bump damping independently as well as fine tune the gas pressures.

ruffy

steve:
so suffice to say the motons are only half the story... the setup/dial in would be equally important.
you would think with so many variable settings this might be a major issue, unless the shop inherently deals in race cars?

also, would a moton setup on a 50/50 track and street car be justified?.. in terms of comfort and livability?

thanks

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

You are absolutely right; there is a lot more to this than meets the eye.

The setup (shock stettings/spring rates/alignment) must all be spot on to take full advantage of such componentry. I've seen some cars so equipped that did not work very well due to incorrect spring choices for the driver, less-than-optimal shock settings and a poor alignment.

With all these variables: shocks, springs, gas pressures, and alignment, you need some good support from the vendor and the installer to see the full potential from these things.

Your last question is tough to answer since that is pretty subjective. Many factors must be considered before deciding whether such a high-end suspension is right for your situation. One must think about:

1) Your experience and skills

2) Handling expectations

3) Number of DE events

4) Local road conditions

A qualified vendor can and should custom tailor a shock-spring package for your needs and conditions so you can live with this on the street. With the proper choice of springs, valving setup and gas pressures, Motons can be made to ride very comfortably for each person's needs. One should also understand that due to the shorter lengths of these competition-based shocks, the car will sit at a lower ride height than most PSS-9 setups and one must also budget for the Evo uprights and tie-rods to correct bump steer.

Bottom line? You are the only one who can determine the value of having such a suspension package,.........

(My deepest apologies for the long-winded, indirect answer)

ruffy

Steve,
Thank you!
If i understand you correctly, there is no easy answer to this question...
i think i'd be one to really appreciate the motons, but i have my worries that service will be a large issue.
given that porsches aren't commonly raced in this part of the world, i'm not so sure if i'd like to experiment (think crash test dummy) on something like that. especially if a large part of the success depends on experience and knowledge.
perhaps an of the rack system will be a safer option, given that the variables are controlled to a minimum.

yes?

thanks once again... and no... long winded is good. i appreciate it greatly!

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

You are most welcome,.....

Everyone has an opinion, but I do not think Moton service requirements are anything unusual based on using them since 1998. One simply checks gas pressures once in a while.

The "experience & knowledge" should be provided by the people who provide the shocks & springs. Those are the people who tell you how to adjust the shocks (and other parts) as well as provide the on-going technical support to help you get the suspension set up correctly.

Depending on your situation, an off-the-shelf solution such as PSS-9's might be "safer", but its a quantum leap behind the handling & control that Moton's provide,....

ruffy

lol... thats the problem with living a long ways overseas.
the lack of experience and knowledge is my greatest fear in such a sophisticated suspension system.

thinking of traveling anytime soon?

Jean

Superyellowfly
I don't live on the other side of the world as you do but I do live in a place where if I ask the local dealer to put anything less than 42psi in my rear Mich. Sport Cups he will think I am stupid.

I have bought and installed myself the Moton on my car. It does need some patience and DIY mindset. Someone like Steve W. can set the suspension for you the way you exactly need it as far as springs, droop, height etc.. The height on my car was exactly as I had requested when I ordered them and they had them preset for me.
Once you install them you only need to tweak a little and experiment with the damping settings. An experienced supplier can make this very easy for you by giving you the best alignment, camber, toe etc.. settings, and pictures of the install. (I have enough pictures myself if you need them).
My take on this is don't be discouraged and compromise on handling because of distance, Rennlist and some of its members will give you more than adequate support.

ruffy

steve & jean,
thanks for the encouragement... and advice.
you guys certainly are helping me to lube the slippery slope.


i will do more research on my own, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
finding good bearing is always tough. cheers guys!

pics would be kinda nice

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Let me know what you want pictures of, and I'll get you some,....

ruffy

steve,
i was hoping you would ask!
i need pics that would help a qualified porsche mechanic to perform the install. but with little or no experience in handling a moton, or race suspension for that matter.
does that makes sense?

perhaps we should start another thread: SUSPENSIONS... Understood (sticky)

thanks for your invaluable support and advice.. people like Jean and yourself make this place great!

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hmmmmm,...I do not have any step-by-step photos to show someone the process.

I do have pics of these mounted on the car to show what they look like in operation.

Whenever I provide a Moton kit to a mail-order client, I preassemble the shocks & springs so the installer knows where all the parts go and in what position/order.