Since this is TB's thread, I just have to share a clip from his last email to me.. you guys will love this!!! TB's fine humor...

power delivery made me smile 'cos believe me when the car hits over boost of 1.4-1.5bar around 4200rpm it is like a truck hitting you up the rear ) and the beauty of this programming is that whilst the boost guage swings back to around the 1 bar mark, the kick in the back remains constant 'til the limiter, yes the top end is still there )

 

that is funny b/c "topgear" recently had a program on getting rear-ended and why such accidents happen ...
perhaps the cars in the Uk they interviewed were all modified Twinturbos and the drivers just thought someone hit them from behind.

 

How'd you know that?

I got some initial numbers that sound good on paper. Can't wait to see and feel the results!

 

[QUOTE=TB993tt]ZC hybrid K16s, do they work ?
..., I know from experience with a 965 which I had tuned with bolt-ons to 460hp in 1994, I sent RS Tuning the power and torque dynos and they were horrified and said the engine would melt – it never did.....


Hey TB... do you mind what bolt-ons you had on the 965 to get to 460? was it 3.3 or 3.6?
Cheers alot

 

[QUOTE=Miles965uk]Miles
It may have been 440hp (it is a while ago now)
3.3 litre with:
Group B+ cams from G Force
Fuel metering head modded
Holset twin outlet turbo from Todd Zuccone (when he was Powerhaus)
B+B headers with inlet modified to feed the twin inlet accurately (these were worth 40hp !)
no cat
1 bar wastegate spring which seemed to always give 1.1 to 1.2 bar
K+N chrome air filter
I think that was it, the power was measure on a Bosch rolling road with no real provision for feeding the intercooler.

 

Cheers TB ...Wow thats impressive from a 3.3, thanks alot for that info.
Theres some guy selling most of bolt on stuff on 911turbo, so i might check it out.

all ive got at the mo is 1bar spring & no cat & j-pipe oh and no (2nd air pump and a/c prob about an extra 5hp!)

I dont understand what the 'Holset twin outlet turbo' is tho? and i take it you took then headers to someone to be modified properly to feed it? do you mind explaining it a bit as i would love that for 40HP!

cheers alot
Miles '94 965

 

Holset is the make, (I think they make a lot of truck turbos) this one was sold by Powerhaus when Todd Z worked there. It had a twin scroll hot side (which at the time everyone said was the hot ticket) and where the exhaust manifold bolted onto the turbo the inlet was obviously 2 holes - what we did was take the end of the B&B headers where they mated up to the 2 holes and welded the separator bit from inside the end of the header to flush with the flange, the idea was to keep the gases flowing separately to stop any trubulance and increase efficiency - I've no idea if it contributed to the decent power output, it was more likely to be the 1 bar boost spring which enjoyed working at 1.1 to 1.2 bar
Anyway I am pretty sure that turbo will be obsolete now and that Kevin will have a better alternative.

 

Technically speaking, the split inlet housing allows exhaust gasses to be grouped by cylinder from exhaust port to the turbine. This keeps the each cylinder's energy separate and whole without being as affected by other cylinder's energy. Depending on the application, it CAN improve turbine spool up, however you'll find larger gains from engines with a smaller number of cylinders ex. 4cyl vs 8 cyl (one pulse every 180 degrees vs 1 pulse every 90 degrees). Garretts tend to have split inlet housings.

 

Thanks for explaination! I understand now.Wow.. I love mods that improve on what porsche have done and what they would of improved it themselves if they could. I take it this is one of them then!...
I think a set of GHL and a HF turbo could give me 30-40 extra. which would just be the ticket!
Cheers

 

If I developed the 993 programing for a motronic ECU for model year 96 and 97 with Kevin's turbos how many would be interested? I would potentially be willing to do the following:

Stage 2 - nonZC & 550hp at under 1 bar of boost (stock internals)
Stage 2 or 3 - ZC at 650hp (modified internals)

This would be using the factory computer, not MoTeC, and priced in the $2500-$2700 range for just the ECU programming.

Any takers?

 

Well I am biting the rather large bullet and taking my car back to Bavaria to RS Tuning where they will remove the engine and reprogram my motor complete with ZC stage 3s on their dyno - they are expecting a maximum of 520hp but I am hopeful and would be ecstatic with 540hp. I will be able to show my power/torque curves back to back of the RSK24s and the Stage 3s - so it will be interesting. Roll on December

 

TB, this is great, as we have not seen any back to back comparisons on an engine dyno yet. As you mentioned, the $/hp must have been prohibitive for another 18-20 hp, I sure hope the low end and torque curve are greatly improved to be really worth the 15k+ investment.

Your car must be a beast when it returns, good luck

Geoffrey, what you are offering is very interesting. I guess you need the car to be able to map properly the Motronic? Will you be able to get a 100% result on a twin-plug engine?

 

Jean,

I have been working with a company that can reprogram Motronic ECUs via OBDII ports, and in the case of the 96 ECU, by modifying the ECU to flash memory. I'm currently working with them on a Ferrari Challenge project. As you know I have stayed out of the Motronic programming for a variety of reasons, but now, working with this company, has solved some of the problems. I MAY venture into developing a program or two for a very specific configuration (as listed above). Beyond that I'll continute to do only MoTeC and Autronic ECUs.

 

Geoffrey,
i am very interested in your ECU programming for Stage2 with stock internals.
Can that ECU also use the advantages of Stage2 with ZC?

What kind of power/torque increase can one expect from Stage2 with ZC using the 430hp porsche ecu? Pro/cons?

Is it possible that someone can look at what rpm the digital boost gauge shows 0.8bar in 2nd, 3rd and perhaps 6th gear for comparison to stock?
Does this make sense for a rough picture?
Stock seems to need more than 5K rpms for 0.8bar on the digital gauge in 2nd.
I will test it again this week.

How much earlier boost does come on with Stage2/ZC?

I am ready now to upgrade power this winter and it seems to be the right time to go, if even tb is convinced now.

 

I thought this was the direction Kevin is headed already?