TB,

So I guess the results are that if someone is looking at a fast <500 hp car, the stage 2-3 are an excellent choice. If someone is an hp junkie he might want to go with something else, although it does not mean they will go faster. I wonder what those stage 6 do, they must fill the gap I guess???The only question I still have not seen raised on any of the ZC threads is about longevity. What is the life expectancy of these ZC ceramic coated turbos? I would expect that after some time they will loose their properties and behave like any other, 10-15 k miles? Any hard data Kevin on people having them for longer and still maintaining the same acceleration numbers? Sorry to squeeze the last drop of your patience

Geoffrey,

The RR350 was used becaused of its very high strength and heat stability, also it is known to resist greatly to stress cracking. In the US this has rarely been used because of its price, so GM and the likes use the A356 or similar, which are good enough. I would be compromising if I used anything else to weld them as I would be compromising the stability of the Alloy and loosing its properties. I do not think many have done it this way on these heads. I am surprised to know that the 993s had them as well as they did not need this level of complexity and price tag. Thanks for the tip, I will check with my builder.

 

Jean
My saying speed to 100mph was intentional - above 100mph, the big hp comes into play. Look at a 993tt X50 with 430PS takes only 8.5secs 0 to 100mph but for the 100 to 124mph takes 5secs compared to the 533PS RS 993 which does 0-100 in 7.1secs but only takes 3.2secs to do the 100mph to 124mph. Most people who are limited by speed limits will not ever use the extra power, but if you have access to the Autobahn, then its a different story.
The times above were taken from here: www.einszweidrei.de

 

Jean;

The HP output is greater than 500.. TB has replied higher on AMerican Dyno's.. I should rephrase the question as "TB on a US Dyno jet what would be the rear wheel HP"?? Jean which Garretts are you installing on your engine.. It's suppose they are going to be GT30's? How much boost are you going to allow in your engine?

 

Interesting to note the hp (in DIN PS presumably), 0-200 kph time and top speed of the RS-Tuning car vs same figures for the Lotec car. They're 533, 10.3 and 340 for the RS-Tuning and 600, 12 and 320 for the Lotec car. Hmm?!?!

 

Phelix
In fairness that RS car had a modified 964 5 speed box which aided the acceleration numbers (less gear changing, longer gears) and also it had special aerodynamics with a different windscreen which sloped more together with a more integrated bonnet (hood) and was gutterless and narrow bodied (I think- based on a 964 C4). I saw a similiary bodied 993tt which had a 700PS Secan motor whilst I was there the other week which apparenty was good for 380KPH. Having said that, RS say they tested one of the TTP 600hp motors and it only made 520PS on their engine dyno so its back to the old how is the power measured, remember TTP had TUV certificate for their 600PS motor. (having said that the TUV used THEIR (TTP's) chassis dyno to prove the numbers) So its the who do you believe dilemma and in this case, the acceleration numbers do show the RS car to be the most powerful - did you see the 0-186mph time

 

Kevin,

I understand what you mean. In reality, they can get more than the 500 hp I guess but I would presume that efficiency drops noticeably after those levels, where you would start needing a larger turbo to keep flowing CFMs..
The turbo choice question is a good one, as it is controversial. We are going with stage 3 T04E/50. We considered the GT30R but based on testing done, the car with the GT30R was a tad laggier and made no difference in power.
I know you know all what I am talking about but maybe you will actually add your expertise to this. TB, I hope you don't mind, but I know you love turbo talk
They changed from the 60 trim compressor on the GT30R's to the 48 trim and
made great boost response, but the power wouldn't go up when they went beyond
1.2 bar. The 54 trim compressors with the GT30's are E series compressors, which is also what we use. The difference is in the turbine wheels, the turbine of the GT30s is nicer but has a lot of unnecessary plumbing. They are lighter and more efficient in theory. But in practice it is not apparent. Todd runs the GT25/35's on the 996tt's and they're great for street stuff, but as you know their 996tt at the shootout ran a set of StageIII/T04E46's and made huge power gains over the GT's at the same boost pressures. Also, another thing to consider is the temps where I live. The GT30s have a phenolic bearing separator that cannot withstand much heat. All in all , they are simpler and effective, so why not use them instead of the GT30s?
I will be running 1.2 Bar boost maximum, at least this is what I say today, but I can dial 1.3-1.4 bars without really risking much. I will be running 90% of the times at 0.8 Bar.
I would have loved to use some of your turbos, but it is difficult to deal with you gurus on email and coordinate between you on top of it

 

Jean;

I got all the info your posted on the compressor side, however, you did not mention the turbine side? I assume a T3 Stage? Stage 2 T3 would start out a SVO Mustang or Merker.... T25 would be the smaller.. (T2) frame..

With all of these tuners in Germany posting numbers on past project cars, I'm beginning to think that RS Tunings dyno is calibrated lower than "Par for the course" Instead of lowering the numbers on every other dyno, we should be adding 50-75HP on RS's...

 

I have a prototype large single turbo from Kevin with ZC on it and it has 2 seasons on it so far. This is about 8000 track miles. So far so good...

 

We can't let this thread die can we?

Kevin, my turbines (ahem..I mean my turbo's turbines) are T3 stage 3 turbines, almost similar to the GT35s. Also, I confirmed that we did have valve clearance issues, that were expected , and they have been taken care of. We found the alloy needed finally and is on its way. According to my builder, this has been a real nightmare and he had to do hours of research on the chemical components of the alloy and their behaviour under temperature etc.. My guess is that VERY few people have done this the way we are, we will see the results, at least for him it is the first time

He also confirmed getting a 522 hp reading on his engine dyno out of a similar pressure sensing setup to mine (but stage 5 turbos) at 0.7 Bar. I don't know how long it would hold or under what parameters this was done, but I trust his words. TB993TT...

 

What ever happened?

 

705hp @ 1.1 Bar on engine dyno I will drive for the first time in...60-70 minutes but they are trying to pull out the tech who test drove it half an hour ago, he strapped himself to the steering wheel like a Greenpeace activist and does not want to let go off the car.

 

Jean, to clarify what you are saying: the 705 H.P. @ 1.1 bar is the "993 tt engine" that
Todd from Protomotive built? And you have Garret ball bearing turbos on it, not stage
3 turbos built by Kevin. Is this correct?? please advise and let us know how the drive
goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Marty

Yes, sorry if I have created any confusion. Todd built my engine from scratch and it is using Garrett. My engine dyno is on his website's main page if anyone would like to see it.
TB was the one who tested the stage 3 ZC from Kevin.