J-McDonald

If you haven't done so already, check out www.ferrarichat.com for opinions from the other side.

bpu699

Well, I'm in the same boat. Cross-shopping a 993 turbo vs. testarossa/348/355. It would be nice to have a ferrari at least once, to experience what it is all about. The concern regarding repair bills is mounting. I never had problems with my porsches, and could drive aggressively without fear of bankrupting myself.

I have already had nightmares about taking a ferrari on a course or DE, I'm just not sure I could afford straining an already delicate car.

You buy ferrari's because they are rare and special...there is a certain WOW factor. Anyone who says they bought a Ferarri solely for performace, and not because it gathers attention, is delusional. Cars 1/3 the price can outperform it.

Porsches offer a great riding experience, and I believe in most instances are much faster that equivilant ferrari's. But quite frankly, very few folks notice porsches anymore, and they are becoming more mundane...

I got much more attention from folks in my 76 911s than in my Boxter S, 996, 944 turbo, etc. If you want attention/to feel special, most porsches don't do it anymore. The 993 turbo, that stills qualifies as unique...and special!

Tough calls.

fc-racer

At the end of the day, you only live once and you really have to go with what your heart is saying. Buying a car that is CAD$100k+ is an emotional decision for the most part. What is the realisit worst case scenerio? You might spend $20k on maintenance for a year. Factor that into your decision and assume you will spend that. If it doesn't break, you're $20k ahead.

A while back, I wanted to buy a Ducati superbike. All of my motorcycle friends told me all the horror stories they had heard, the $3k engine repairs of bikes that were only a few years old, etc, etc. I was told they are fragile track bikes, need constant maintenance and repair bills were more like a car than a bike. I factored in $5k in maintenance in my purchase decision for the first two years and decided to buy the bike.

I put a set of carbon pipes on the bike and a DP chip. I did 15 (FIFTEEN!) track days on that bike in the first two years and another 8-9 in the last two years. I only did routine maintenance and replaced worn tires. The bike never let me down and I had none of the "common" problems. Sometimes you luck out I guess. I do not regret buying the bike and enjoyed it greatly. I recently sold it when I bought the 993 Turbo and it even held its value really well too.

Factor in the worst case scenerio and if the Ferrari still makes you go weak at the knees, go for it!

nota_troll

Friend loaned a 355 to me for a few days.

IMHO - The Ferrari has one thing that makes me buy over a 993TT and that's the sound of the motor. It's performance is silky smooth and sounds like sex but I'd still drop my dollars on a Porsche. I prefer the all around flexibility of a 993TT.

Bill S.

If you like speed and reliability, the 993TT will win over the 355. However, the 360 is another story. I have a Challenge Stradale. It's an incredible car. There's no way I can keep up with it on a mountain road, even with my Ruf Turbo R. The car's throttle, steering, braking and shifting response is just too fast. It also accelerates the same as a stock 993TT or 996TT. The incredible straight-line high-speed stability, road view and sound add to the experience. If you like engineering, the Stradale is a winner also. Aluminum frame, panels, titanium engine and suspension parts, 8500 RPM redline, F1 paddle shifters, carbon brakes, active suspension, active traction control, and others add to the experience. I have a Ruf Turbo R which, in a straight line, is faster. However, when I drove my friend in the Stradale, he said "Your Ruf is fast, but this car is absolutely insane". It's just a totally different experience.

However, there is one important difference for me between the Porsche and the Ferrari (I've owned Porsche turbos for over 20 years, and just bought my first Ferrari). I don't drive the Ferrari as much for a few reasons:

1. I don't want to "wear-out" the experience (i.e., I get bored of things fast).
2. It's much more enjoyable to look at, and thus you feel obligated not to damage it too much (i.e., it has an "artwork" appeal about it).
3. All evidence points to the italians finally having the german reliability, but I'm a little reluctant to confirm that.
4. It attracts much more attention than most any other car, even my Viper. So, I'm reluctant to park it at the same places I'd park my Ruf.

Anir

Bill,

Your Stradale is beautiful. If you don't mind me asking, how many miles do you have on it? What, if anything, has needed fixing?

What do you think about the upcoming 430? Looks like a great car.

BTW, fc racer, my 1999 Ducati was completely reliable as well.

Rob 97 993c2

speaking of F-cars... whats the story on the new ferrari 475?? Is it the next model of the 360? or is it a big/heavy touring car? i looks beautiful, but i dont know anything else.

Bill S.

Thanks Anir. I have about 800 miles. I usually drive the car about 150 miles every 2 weeks or so. I do drive it very hard. It doesn't feel or sound like it's easy to break. I think Ferrari build enough 360s to get the bugs out. However, I did need to add front underside protectors to avoid destroying the bumper. The front of the car does scrape often; not so much on driveways, but when travelling fast on bad roads.

Regarding the 430. It will have more horsepower and torque, so it will be faster than a 360 and clearly an improvement over that car. However, I'm not sure how much better it will be than the Stradale. It may be a bit faster in a straight line, but not much. The Stradale has 425 HP and weighs about 3000 lbs. The 430 has 483 HP and will likely weigh more. However, comparing the Stradale to the 430 would be like comparing the Porsche GT3 to the Porsche 996TT. They're both nearly as fast in a straight line, but the GT3 is more of a track car. That's like the Stradale: lightweight, stiff, low, loud and no sound insulation. That's what I like. The 430 will likely be more refined.

Now, a "430 Stradale" would be a different story.

Most people don't realize that the 430 is not a completely new car, but an upgraded 360, unlike the 355 to 360 transitions. Regarding looks, I don't care for the smaller headlights and the larger overall look much, but that may change when I see the car in person.

430 pics...

Viken

Bill, I think it is a bit premature to compare the F430 with the Challenge Stradale. Aside from the spartan interior of the CS, the F430 incorporates many of the upgrades Ferrari made with the CS and several other new ones.

It is new enough. More than 70% of the F430 is different from the 360.

Jean

Bill,

Nice stable of cars you have. I knew about your Ruf but this Stradale is just plain gorgeous.

I am afraid however that we are not doing the right comparisons.
- Ferrari 355 vs stock 993TT as far as performance on nice twisty roads, the 993TT has beaten every single time the F 355 by a margin and with the same driver (me ).
- 993TT vs 360 Modena, the 993TT beat it, but to be fair, I was not used to the Modena and my time improved on the third run to get closer to 993TT with a difference of 4 seconds over a 3 mile distance.
- 993 platform TT or RUF vs Stradale, not a fair comparison, a fair one would be a GT3 RS with the Stradale, still costing about 1/2 the price, it will be very very tight challenge, the best driver winning.

I have driven the GT3 RS a few times and have seen it on the track beat all the 996TTs (except a 750 Gemballa) and GT2s by a margin of 3-4 seconds with a medium/fast driver on board.. that same driver was 2-3 seconds behind the leaders when he was driving in his 600 hp 996TT.
Nothing beats the looks and sound though of a Ferrari, and if money was not an issue, I would definitely pick a Stradale over a GT3RS anyday, let alone a 993TT.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with those unique cars you have.

Viken, I understand you have a 360 and a GT3, what is your opinion as far as performance between the two, I would guess they are very close other than in straight line.

Jean

Viken

That's exactly the point. In the hands of a pro or a very experienced driver, the 360 would easily beat any stock Turbo P-car around any given track. But, most of us, feel much more at ease with the Turbo's AWD capabilities.

Yeah, pretty close. The P-car's engine has a fatter torque curve and will accelerate better between 3k and 6k rpm's. The 360 wants to rev higher and uses much shorter gears to achieve same. The F-car's engine revs a lot quicker too and 8500 rpm's can come in no time. Steering is more razor sharp on F-car as it is a mid-engine layout. P-car steering is a slight step behind but can be tweaked with some alignment settings. What Ferrari achieves with wind tunnel testing and aerodynamics, Porsche does same mostly through suspension calibrations. The 360 corners smoothly and absorbs bumps while GT3 chassis gets upset rather quickly and abruptly. Both cars feel at ease on smoother track surfaces, but F-car wins the road test.

For a mere mortal like myself, the 360 out of the box with factory installed street tires handles better, grips better and gives better and more linear road feedback. The GT3 can come close with some R-compound tires and a tweaked alignment, but will always fall short in the bumpy pavement test. I have driven the Challenge Stradale extensively and it is a vast improvement over the 360 Modena in every respect. Although I have not driven a GT3 RS, I doubt that its improvements over the standard GT3 are as substantial. At least, that's what most of the ROW press has reported.

Jean

Great insight Viken, you have described with so much precision the differences in handling, thank you for your input.

Without wanting to hijack this thread, I would just like to add that the latest GT3s and GT3 RS have been known to have a problem with the front suspension whereas the steering feels a bit "loose" especially on bumpy roads. Some European tuners have identified this as being a problem with a bushing in the front suspension, and fixed it, the improvement being important apparently.
The GT3 RS has been tested by Flat 6 magazine at 2.4" faster than the latest generation GT3 on a 2kms track, around 1.6 miles, which is substantial. Suspension mods, modifications to the heads and around 100 lbs lighter than the GT3.
Again apologies for the hijack.

Bill S.

One thing I might add regarding the F-cars: their high-speed stability is extraordinary. My wife, who often doesn't notice subtle performance differences, commented on how incredibly stable the CS feels at high speed. It's just feels like an arrow slicing through the air. The P-cars wander all over the place at similar speeds, especially the 993.

BTW, the CS and GT3 accelerate nearly identically. Here's info from Car & Driver magazine:

0-60: 4.0 seconds
0-150: 23.9 seconds
1/4-mile: 115 @ 12.4 (CS); 114 @ 12.3 (GT3)

Meeyatch1

Hmm..I find this interesting. Having driven our '95 993 Carrera 4 Cabriloet at about 175 mph I thought it was very stable and planted. No wandering whatsoever. I also piloted a '90 348ts at about 170 mph and felt stable, but a little more jittery than the 993 Cab. What I really need to do is drive an F355 and see how it compares.

Viken

You did 175 mph in your cab? Are you sure that's not Kph?