I hate to bring this up again, especially during the festive season when everyone is supposed to get on etc
But - its the Cargraphic Intercooler - If they are still flogging the "V" type manufactured for TTP then my question still is: Do they work ?
For: Steve W is an advocate.
They have sold lots of them
They are bigger
The blurb claims 30% better flow, 20% better cooling.
Against:
RS Tuning and Ruf say they don't work better than the stock one, which is the best available up to 540hp power levels. (I don't think they have tested the Protomotive one VB ) and they have tested the TTP unit on their engine dynos against the stock one back to back.
I have one and I bought it before I had my major engine job done and continue to use it 'cos it is no worse than stock and I like to think it must flow better and it IS bigger - I would love to see some concrete data showing this I/C works better than stock -to justify using it - but to date the most authoritative evidence (ie on the engine dyno back to back) comes from the big guns in 993tt tuning.

 

Keith;

Do you still have your K16's?

TB

On the fence! We laid down 508 RWHP with a stock 993TT cooler this week....

 

TB,

I too am unsure of the exact cost benefit but believe for the reasons you stated it is worth the insurance value anyway. FWIW I will be on the chassis dyno after install. I will post the results.

Kevin,

Yes I do still have the K16's and glad to see you post again. Do you want to mod them? Have you set up shop? 508RWHP is great, congratulations!

 

Does she take the wheel when your seein double and pays your ticket when you speed??

 

That's the one. I thought all those folks out in the Bay area would spot that one but I guess they are daze gone by.

 

Viperbob,

Here is the FPR that I tried out. Is there another part number I should be looking for? This one has no adjustment that I can see. Thanks

 

Congrats Keith. That's incredible gains. [Bette Middler's voice]"Did you ever know you're my heeeeeeeroooooooo".

AWE Tuning is a great group. I've purchased many items for my S4 as well as my 993.

FWIW, I don't know why I hang around this board. Looks like the only twin turbo I'm going to get is my Audi.

 

Nota,

Thanks, I know better than that there is definitely a 993tt in your future.

 

another interesting thought about the intercoolers that I have read about basically says the same thing that they do no better really unless you go for the andial/s***** one forgot the name of the co but it is really pricey. However one thing that I was curious about was about boost lag. If it cools no better and is bigger then it would create some additional boost lag if ever so slightly at the least- It would be interesting to note what the diff of that is if it is an influence at all.

 

Well Keith, that is not the adjustable model... I'll try to take a picture of mine and post...

 

That is the PMS FPR. The Bosch version made for Porsche were non adjustable, there is one for the 964 like this as well. You will find that they do make an adjustable version but most of the adjustable versions are in the aftermarket vender side.

In regards to the intercooler, the thinner factory core is ideal for street and short track use. I compared the larger CG to the stock and the rate of temperature drop compared to the CG was significant when heat soaked from sitting. The efficiency is far better than the thicker core versions.

 

Bob,

No need to go to the trouble of taking a picture unless you are in there for something else. I will install the intercooler and if it affects the a/f such that the GIAC software/stock FPR combination no longer works I will look at the 5.0 bar and adjustable FPR issue again. Thank you.


Stephen,

I understand what you are saying regarding a big chunk of metal having greater thermal retention capabilities. I guess what I was hoping for was greater efficiency during real world driving situations. Cruising down the highway or straightaway with the air cooling taking place whatever that might be. I am also looking at either the turbo S or GT2 tail to provide some increase in air volume. But then again I will be looking for more HP too.

 

The one place that the cooler seemed to work well was in a very modified situation and on very long runs at high speeds. Remember that ambient temperatures also play a big part in the efficiency of the intercooler. The testing I did was in the summer in the Midwest. The temps and humidity that time of year are terrible. Milder areas may have greater success with the thicker core. The idea is to have a thin core with a lot of surface area. It would be hard to create a larger area than the 993TT already has. Look at the 930 as an example. It is efficient up to about 440HP under 88 degrees. After 88 degrees no matter how much air the intercooler can not do its job and retains heat. The intercooler would drop even below that if the rubber wasn't around it to force air. By forcing air directly through it you effectively double the capacity of the intercooler. The more surface area and the thinner the core the faster it can cool down.

Also I would suspect that the FPR didn't give you the results you wanted because unless the GIAC software was written for it or you have gone beyond the program the setup is written without the FPR needed.

 

The TTP/Cargraphic I/C actually has a shorter "run" through the cores at 25.1cm compared to 26.1cm for the factory. The surface area is 753sqcm TTP versus 692sqcm stock. I feel it is the length of "run" which is more important for our cars since the stock I/C has enough capacity for 540hp so the extra width does not guarantee extra cooling. If one looks at the GT2EVO cooler, it is thin and has a very long run (aided by the different induction set up)
I would argue that whilst the bigger TTP I/C may retain more heat 'cos of the extra metal, it would also take more energy (turbo heated air) to heat up, therbye taking more heat out of the air like a bigger "heat sink" until it gets "soaked" - In real life street driving, this should translate into cooler inlet air in stop-go driving. Of course on the track it is a different matter.

 

In theory that would be great if it works, and it makes sense. However when it soaks unless there is a long sustained air flow and not stop and go traffic it gets hot and stays hot. I should see if I can cut and paste my data logs. The CG would not cool down at the rate the stock did. The stock the minute you pulled away from the light the intake temp would drop like a rock. The CG was a bit lazy to come down..On the flip side to that a run on the highway in 6th WOT for 2 miles or more would show a lower temp then the stock. Unit. In the long run I sold the CG and kept the stock. I actually use it in a lot of our TT conversions. It is a fine intercooler IMHO and was and still is my choice. My TT was setup making 438.7RWHP. That was a 2WD dyno.