TB993tt

A high proportion of 996 purchasers do so because it is the latest premium level Porsche and they must have the newest model on their drive way for all to see their status and for them to "know" that they are driving the best that the prestigious brand can offer. In contrast, a high proportion of 993 owners (who could easily afford a 996) realise that it is their model that represents the pinnacle of 911 heritage and over engineered build quality which has now been lost to modern manufacturing methods and the god of profit.
If the 997 looks similar to the 993 (see recent spy shots) and the rumours are right that Porsche is engineering back in some of the rawness and moving away from the GT theme then I predict that used 996 prices will free fall and reach a level some way below 993 values. Those people who must have the latest brand offering will buy the 997 and fans of the older shapes will also help make the 997 a success, leaving the 996 to stand as a "unique" model range which I think people will look back on (whilst admiring the new 997) and think (relatively speaking) that is not an attractive car.
Does anyone agree or are there 993 owners out there who would love to "upgrade" to a 996 ?
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Mr Michael B

Perhaps the 996 will join the 964 as an "orphan" in the world of the 911 series. I truly like the 996, and I liked my 964 turbo, but I have seen rapid resale value decline in both variants.

If the "997" as you call it is more like the 993, then I would tend to agree with you on how it may play out. My own 1st impression when I saw a few spy pics of the new 997 headlights was that indeed the 993 may gain popularity because of them.

Actually, if the top of the line new Porsche has strong sales, then the full line of used Porsche's can benefit. As many who cannot go & buy the latest & greatest will still want a piece of the pie & grab at what they CAN afford in the used market.

I often see late 80's Carrera's at asking prices above some bargin basement 993's, and certainly above a bunch of 964's. That is similar to this topic. Just with different players.

Jan_M

I look at my 993 C2S as a true sportscar, and a baby like that is very personal. i have tried multiple 996's, like the handling and looks only of C4S, but still those 996's lack character to me.

With 997, it seems like Porsche has a strategy again. Boxster, 997, Cayenne and soon a V8 GT, where 997 would be what a 911 always should have been and/or stayed, a true sportscar.

And you might be right, the 996 could become a 924 in history. My take is that good 993s will keep a certain value, juts like other classic models (2.4S, 2.7RS, etc) beeing the last air-cooled also helps.

If the 997 delivers, I'd go.

Rgds,

Jan

996FLT6

If the 997 is a better performer then that's the car I would want. Each Porsche over the years has gotten better and I think the 997 will be top notch. Nothing like a new car . Regards. Mike

Tim Ashfield

No real comment about the newer cars but genuinely feel that the 993's status as last of the air-cooled 911's and it's fairly limited production numbers can only be good news for future values.

okindao

Being a 97 993 Cab owner( first Porsche) I had a chance last week to drive a 2001 996. Very quick, responsive and smooth ; it really felt like a GT experience to me. frankly would make a better daily driver than my car but it just did not give me that same feeling of driving a classic Porsche. I recognize that this newer model has far more horsepower and technology than my car but I would not trade them for a moment. Time will tell on the 997 but the 996 is not special to me as the 993 seems

Anir

I, for one, would love to see the 997 gain back the headlights, and a bit of the raw character, of the 993. However, let me play devil's advocate here.

Unlike many of us on Rennlist, I'm not so sure that most buyers are looking for "raw" character nowadays. Rennlisters may represent an active and vocal, but relatively small, minority of modern sports car enthusiasts. I'm starting to think that most folks buying high-end sports cars actually prefer a GT-type set-up.

For example, Rob recently expressed his displeasure with the rough ride of his 993TT on Britain's rutted roads. Also, look at the success of the E46 M3 (engine troubles, notwithstanding). To me, the car's suspension is much too soft and the steering too vague and light, but journalists and sports car enthusiasts absolutely loved it. We waited over a year after placing our deposit to take delivery of one.

Other "well-rounded" (compromised, softer) sports-oriented vehicles are getting more and more popular - e.g. M5, Maserati, Mercedes SL500, and the Cayenne. Even Ferrari signficantly softened up the latest rendition of the 575 Maranello.

I'm no marketing man, but I suspect the auto manufacturers may be catering to the mainstream that prefers more comfortable, easier-to-drive, GT-style sports cars. If 996 residuals do poorly, it may have more to do with fried-egg headlights than with its more GT-oriented nature.

speedster 94

hallo
i am in Germany and the Situation here might be different , but you can buy a 996 from 98/99 cheaper than a 993 from 97/98 already .The 993 is holding its value over the last 2-3 Years steady.
The 996 is dropping with every KM you put on it and every month.It seems to be a classic Car already,the last aircooled .I dont agree that this car was rough as a Porsche used to be . The
real Raw Porschefeeling ended in 89,when the Porsches had no Gimmicks ( PS, ABS,ABD,PDSetc.)and the Driver was in Charge not the Electronics .
In my Opinion the older Porsches were the most fun but also the hardest to manage(ever driven a 73 RS or a 930 Turbo ?)
Harald

dcpmark

I completely agree with Anir's assessment. As I get older (and more financially capable), I find MYSELF wanting more and more GT-style comforts. I already prefer the new interiors to ours, and only the exterior styling prevents me from getting a new C4S. If the 997 returns to the sexy, curvaeous styling of the 993s, I will be the first in line to purchase one, not withstanding the weight problems the 997 is probably going to suffer from.

That being said, if the 997 doesn't invoke an emotional response when I LOOK at it, my next purchase will be the cleanest, lowest mile Arctic Silver/Black 993tt I can find......

Anir

[quote]Originally posted by dcpmark:
<strong>...As I get older (and more financially capable)...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Mark,

That reminds me of a cartoon I saw once, where two young adults are talking to each other. The one says,

"When you're a kid, you've got plenty of time and energy, but no freedom or money.

By the time you reach young adulthood, you've got energy and freedom, but no time or money.

When you're old, you've finally got the freedom, time, and money, but no energy."

Finally, she says, "Who came up with this stupid schedule anyway?"


Happy Thanksgiving to all.

laurence '97 C4S

"Will the 997 precipitate a crash in 996 residuals whilst 993 values remain solid ?"

The short answer IMHO is Yes, without a doubt. Low mile, well maintained, correctly optioned from the factory, wide body 993's will continue to hold thier value extremely well. The switch to water-cooled engines made the 993 an over night classic.

993Racer

Interesting. I bought a 95 993 about 6 months ago in the spring. After searching all over teh USa several dealers told me they couldnt sell a 996. They also said that the difference in price was $2-3K between the two. I was very surprised.

I tend to agee that there re two buyers. First the one that knows all about the heritage. Second teh one that is buying fashion. The 996 is a Porsche and as such superior to alternatives... Still water colled Porsches just do not have the resale, across all models..

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John D II

[quote]Does anyone agree or are there 993 owners out there who would love to "upgrade" to a 996 ?
<hr></blockquote>


Yes, I upgraded from a 993TT to a 996TT and couldn't be happier with my decision. In answer to your question: "I love the upgrade". In fact, I kept the 993TT for a little over a month to make sure that I would like the 996TT, before selling the 993. I knew the answer after the first 2 hours, but waited the month or so, just in case. No offense to 993 owners, but I don't miss my 993 at all. In fact, the times I did drive the 993TT, after I had the 996TT, it just wasn't the same, the experience was not nearly as cherished as before. It just felt like an old car.

As for value, the fact that less 993's were made and they are the last of the air cooled era will most likely make them more collectable and maybe worth more in the long run, but personally, that is not the reason I bought the car. I bought it to drive it and enjoy it. I have owned several air cooled 911's over 20 years and the 996TT is the nicest, most enjoyable Porsche that I have ever owned.

In reference to the "over engineered" 993 and "lost build quality of the 996": The 993 has it's share of design faults, including a squeaky windshield, broken door straps, oil cooler problems, corroded windshield antenna wires, hard to correct vibrations, easily warped brake discs, electric seat mechanism failure, poor lighting at night, very long shifting, etc. My 996TT has none of the above and is as solid as can be, therefore, I disagree regarding the 993 being the "pinnacle" of Porsche design. Based on my experience of owning both, personally, I don't buy into this - I think the 996 is the better car to own.

As for looks, I like both styles and could easily live with either one. I think the 996 looks more modern, which I prefer (even the fried egg lights, which are a great functional improvement over the 993 series lighting). However, I think the 993 looks great, too. Looks is way down on my list. As long as the car resembles a 911 or has an attactive sporty appearance, such as the Carrera GT , I quickly move on to the operating/performance experience. When I drive the car, I access my position of whether I like it or not. I could care less about the shape of the lights - IMHO, way too much is made of this design aspect.

Once the 997 comes out, if there are worthwhile advances, many of the 996 owners will trade up. Also, a lot of 993 owners are going to be due for a new car and most likely will be takers. The 993 is becoming an old used car and very few will want to drive one regularly, especially, as more time passes. The 996 will represent a reasonably new 911 (compared to a 993) and become a great buy for the person that doesn't want to spend nearly 100K. I think the 996 will be viewed as a real Porsche (unlike some models) and do well as a used sports car. IMHO, it has the looks and performance to succeed, as a desirable used 911. I think that the 996 headlight style is only an issue for a small, select group of 993 owners and the world is a much larger place.

To 993Racer: I know all about Porsche heritage and believe me when I say there is much more to the 996 than "fashion". Try keeping up with one.

DJF1

[quote]Originally posted by John D II:
<strong>

Once the 997 comes out, if there are worthwhile advances, many of the 996 owners will trade up. Also, a lot of 993 owners are going to be due for a new car and most likely will be takers. The 993 is becoming an old used car and very few will want to drive one regularly, especially, as more time passes. The 996 will represent a reasonably new 911 (compared to a 993) and become a great buy for the person that doesn't want to spend nearly 100K.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree partially with your statement. I would buy a used 996 for a daily driver not as a keeper.
While performance seems to be the only factor on your decision it is not for everyone else the same. There are intangibles for people like me from the way the 993 is shaped, the fact that the 993 is the last aircooled 911, from the way it has kept most of the traditions of the old times alive till 1998. For example the instrument layout, the clutch sticking out the floor things that matter to me and some other people but say nothing to others. In other words the old charm that is mostly gone from the 996 on. I bet 25 years from now there will be many more 993's on the concours circle much like the 356's etc than 996's or even 997's...
Yes in the future I see myself in a 996 or a 997 but these are going to be cars that I will enjoy,trade up and will never keep a permanent spot in my garage like my 993 which will stay for me till I cannot drive anymore...By the way I also see a 964 Turbo 3.6 next to her as well

DGlenn

Sorry guys, but I keep hoping for the bottom ($$$) to drop out of the 993s so that I can jump in one.