Pricing Help Needed From the Experts (you guys)
04-04-2016, 09:01 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
re reading the original post and all the followups i will just throw out there to consider 964 before they go crazy price wise. While not a 993 some actually prefer them driving wise and looks wise. A buddy of mine has a 2 owner car with all records c4 with under 80k miles and he will maybe get 40-45 for it. Driving it back to back with mine i cant say mine is more fun to drive or look at. You could get a well maintained one for a lot less and would most certainly gain value.
Unfortunately the 993 appears to now be in a position where 'collectors' have driven prices way beyond what they are worth. You face buying an underused garage queen you will have paid too much to have fun in or use put of fear of harming your investment, or a very high mileage example that will start to cost you a fair bit if you use it much and wont go up further (as my engine sits in a shop somewhere having its top end redone for oil consumption). As i said earlier i am glad i got mine back in 04. As someone who prefers driving to collecting i couldnt do it today.
Unfortunately the 993 appears to now be in a position where 'collectors' have driven prices way beyond what they are worth. You face buying an underused garage queen you will have paid too much to have fun in or use put of fear of harming your investment, or a very high mileage example that will start to cost you a fair bit if you use it much and wont go up further (as my engine sits in a shop somewhere having its top end redone for oil consumption). As i said earlier i am glad i got mine back in 04. As someone who prefers driving to collecting i couldnt do it today.
04-05-2016, 12:53 AM
#48
Three Wheelin'
Run Forest Run! Plenty of great cars out there. Just take your time. Stay away from these bad rep dealers.
04-05-2016, 03:16 PM
#49
Originally Posted by johnireland
The price, even if the car was perfect, is way way too high. It is a 20 year old car and with those absurdly low miles that means 20 years of stuff that needs work. The entire suspension is probably turned into petrified wood. Once you start driving the bushings are going to fall apart, the shocks will start to leak, etc. Gaskets seals are dry from lack of use...they have become brittle with age and when you start driving and they get wet again, they can start to crumble and leak. Electrical components may have built up corrosion over time and can show resistance when they start to get used. Window regulators, the sunroof motor and cables, the mirror motors, the struts that hold up the frunk and the engine hood will likely begin to fail (especially if original) and they have not been used often. The alternator and starter motor (if original) could also fail if they suddenly experience a lot more exercise than they are used to over the last 20 years. Oh yes, don't forget the wheel bearings. Like old tires, they can develop flat spots. This is a car for someone who wants to park it and look at it for a year or so, and then hope to flip it for a small profit. Find a car that has been well driven and well maintained and for under $50k...maybe closer to $45k.
This statement by John Ireland is fear speech IMO.
Don't let low mileage keep you from purchasing your perfect car. Just be sure to have a PPI by a trusted, informed individual (This is true about any car you get). And enjoy your purchase in good health.
04-06-2016, 01:57 AM
#50
Rennlist Member
No fear speech...just saying that after 20 years stuff wears out and breaks. The car is a mechanical devise that likes to be kept in motion. Not using it can be harder on parts than using it. I'd rather have a high mileage car that has been well maintained than a garage queen doesn't get driven and as a result doesn't get serviced. The 993 is one of the best daily drivers anyone could ask for, sadly the speculators are making them harder to acquire at a logical price...and that is sending a lot of them to the garage instead of the road.
04-06-2016, 02:09 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
Seems the guys with all the low mileage cars had all the problems.
04-06-2016, 05:13 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Are we talking collector cars or drivers? I've seen lots of low mile cars (of all makes) and unless they are owned by a museum that keeps refreshing them, they all suffer from lack of use. Years ago I bought my Ferrari, a 308 GTSi, with 88k miles on it. All the Ferrari owners I ran into had heart attacks over the milage. However I had fewer oil leaks and belt issues than they did because drove my car every day. Sold it three years later with 124k on the odometers...ran perfectly, no mechanical failures.
Seems the guys with all the low mileage cars had all the problems.
Seems the guys with all the low mileage cars had all the problems.
04-06-2016, 06:08 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Are we talking collector cars or drivers? I've seen lots of low mile cars (of all makes) and unless they are owned by a museum that keeps refreshing them, they all suffer from lack of use. Years ago I bought my Ferrari, a 308 GTSi, with 88k miles on it. All the Ferrari owners I ran into had heart attacks over the milage. However I had fewer oil leaks and belt issues than they did because drove my car every day. Sold it three years later with 124k on the odometers...ran perfectly, no mechanical failures.
Seems the guys with all the low mileage cars had all the problems.
Seems the guys with all the low mileage cars had all the problems.
My 993 purchased with 111k has been great, so has my F355 purchased with 11k.
04-07-2016, 05:09 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Checking out some cars - thoughts
Guys - This info has been amazingly useful. I'm still considering the C2 with 17K, I am also now planning to take a look at a C4S, with 60k miles. That car is closing on 90k though. Seems well optioned and has very solid records. To throw in one other curve ball I am also going to take a 964 C2, lower price point, around $55k.
Somewhat vague question, but....does one of these feel like a better buy than the others. I am not looking for an investment, but a car that I can drive the sh*t out of, and give to my boy one day.
993 C4S is rarer apparently ($90K)
993 C2 has low miles ($75K)
964 C2....well, it's a 964, which is cool ($55/60K)
All cars will get a PPI from a air cooled guy recommended by a pal...not the dealers.
Thanks guys
Somewhat vague question, but....does one of these feel like a better buy than the others. I am not looking for an investment, but a car that I can drive the sh*t out of, and give to my boy one day.
993 C4S is rarer apparently ($90K)
993 C2 has low miles ($75K)
964 C2....well, it's a 964, which is cool ($55/60K)
All cars will get a PPI from a air cooled guy recommended by a pal...not the dealers.
Thanks guys
04-07-2016, 06:46 PM
#56
Guys - This info has been amazingly useful. I'm still considering the C2 with 17K, I am also now planning to take a look at a C4S, with 60k miles. That car is closing on 90k though. Seems well optioned and has very solid records. To throw in one other curve ball I am also going to take a 964 C2, lower price point, around $55k.
Somewhat vague question, but....does one of these feel like a better buy than the others. I am not looking for an investment, but a car that I can drive the sh*t out of, and give to my boy one day.
993 C4S is rarer apparently ($90K)
993 C2 has low miles ($75K)
964 C2....well, it's a 964, which is cool ($55/60K)
Somewhat vague question, but....does one of these feel like a better buy than the others. I am not looking for an investment, but a car that I can drive the sh*t out of, and give to my boy one day.
993 C4S is rarer apparently ($90K)
993 C2 has low miles ($75K)
964 C2....well, it's a 964, which is cool ($55/60K)
The 993 C2 (if it's the Luxsport one) I would pass
The 964 C2; what is MY, miles, condition, etc. If the miles are sub 50k the 964 is the best value of the three and will easily hold its own regarding appreciation compared to the 993's. Question, have you posted a WTB thread; no RLers out there willing to part with their car?
04-07-2016, 06:55 PM
#57
Banned
At some point in time, let's say in 20 years, the car will be around 40 years old, and condition will be more important than mileage (although if the car has under 20K miles AND excellent condition it will be worth a lot more.)
04-07-2016, 07:15 PM
#58
Banned
The C4S sounds overpriced to me
The 993 C2 (if it's the Luxsport one) I would pass
The 964 C2; what is MY, miles, condition, etc. If the miles are sub 50k the 964 is the best value of the three and will easily hold its own regarding appreciation compared to the 993's. Question, have you posted a WTB thread; no RLers out there willing to part with their car?
The 993 C2 (if it's the Luxsport one) I would pass
The 964 C2; what is MY, miles, condition, etc. If the miles are sub 50k the 964 is the best value of the three and will easily hold its own regarding appreciation compared to the 993's. Question, have you posted a WTB thread; no RLers out there willing to part with their car?
A 1994 964 C2 at 55k is not a deal, Hagerty has a #1 car at 45K and all conditions are trending flat.
A 1996 993 C2 #1 is at 90K, all conditions are trending flat.
A 1996 C4S #1 is at 150K and climbing. #2 at 112K and trending up. #3/4 cars are slightly trending up.
04-07-2016, 07:27 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Honestly I think you need a lot information about all of the cars to really close in on pricing.
A 1994 964 C2 at 55k is not a deal, Hagerty has a #1 car at 45K and all conditions are trending flat.
A 1996 993 C2 #1 is at 90K, all conditions are trending flat.
A 1996 C4S #1 is at 150K and climbing. #2 at 112K and trending up. #3/4 cars are slightly trending up.
A 1994 964 C2 at 55k is not a deal, Hagerty has a #1 car at 45K and all conditions are trending flat.
A 1996 993 C2 #1 is at 90K, all conditions are trending flat.
A 1996 C4S #1 is at 150K and climbing. #2 at 112K and trending up. #3/4 cars are slightly trending up.
04-07-2016, 07:56 PM
#60
