billh1963

I've been lurking on the 996 board for a few weeks now and was having thoughts of getting a 2-3 year old 996 next year to go with my 993 C4S. I like the 996 in spite of the Boxster nose and I have to admit after having recently driven one they do drive great, but, I've changed my mind.

After reading on the 996 forum about the problems with the new ceramic brakes I wonder about Porsche's long term commitment to the brand. Many comments on this forum and others continue to demonstrate Porsche's shifting attitudes towards it's loyalty base. It appears that Porsche is milking the brand name for all it's worth. I don't say this as a die hard Porsche fanatic..this is my first Porsche and I have no "skin in the game" per se. It just looks to me like Porsche is getting close to that stage where Ford and GM have been in the past...putting the Cobra, GTO, etc. names on cars that have have strayed from the original formula.

Don't misunderstand me...the 996 is a great car and the 996TT is awesome. However, you can't help but wonder when you read the stories of blown engines, ceramic rotor failures, etc. what the future holds. I once read a story about the difference between Lotus and Porsche in the 1960's. If an engineer came to Porsche with two wheel bearings and said, "one of these lasts 2 years and costs $3 and the other lasts 5 years and costs $5..which should we use?" Porsche would say, "Find one that lasts 10 years". If the same question was asked of Colin Chapman of Lotus he would ask, "When does the warranty expire?" It looks like Porsche is adapting the Colin Chapman model. In Mr. Chapman's defense he did this to pour all available money into racing.

Porsche has some wonderful products planned...the 997 and the 998. I'm sure that they'll be awesome performers. But, will they be as truly well thought out and tested as the 993? Our 993's have issues...most cars do. But our cars are fairly bullet proof for the capabilities that they offer. They really are the last of the old breed. Maybe that's good and maybe that's bad. I don't know. I do know, however, that I feel confident in my car's ability to run reliability at high speeds. I hope that when the 997's and 998's push the 200mph envelope that they are as thoroughly thought out and tested.

I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't been mentioned before. Perhaps I have just come to realize what everyone else has learned. Sorry for the ramble...I've seen 4 new Cayenne's in town this week. All literally driven by soccer moms. The nearest Porsche dealer is in Atlanta almost 100 miles away. The insanity has begun!

DoubleNutz

Bill , I stepped into a 996C4 from a 993 and found the 996 to be less of a maintenance headache than my 993 (in fact my 993 keep my pocket bone dry)- just my experience. My 996 is a daily driver and by comparsion, to my 993, is virtually problem free. I spent quite a few coins on my 993 trying to keep it up as a daily driver.

Remember, for the last three three years JD Power and associates has been evaluating the most reliable automobiles in various classes. this is the second time the 996, has been awarded "The Most Dependable Premium Sport Car".

However, it does not stop there- if you look at the JD Power and Associates study and stack ranking of the 2003 Vehicle Dependability Study (http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/ima...03050afull.gif) the Porsche 996 had the least problems per every 100 vehicles it manufactured.

The industry average of problems per every 100 cars is 273- The stack ranking is as follows ( if you have not visited the link)

Porsche Cars North America- 193
Toyota Motor Sales USA (Lexus inclusive)- 196
American Honda Motor - 215
Nissan Motor America- 258
BMW- 258
GM Corp- 264
Subaru of America- 266
(Below Indusrty Average)
Ford Motor (Jaguar included)- 287
DaimlerChrysler (Mercs Benz Included)- 311
Mitsubishi Motors N.A.- 339
Hyundai Motor America- 342
American Isuzu Motors- 368
Volkswagen of America- 378
American Suzuki Motor Corp- 403
Daewoo Motor America- 421
Kia Motors America- 509

swftiii

Bill... - I liked your post. I haven't been watching the 996 board or researching at all, but I have heard through the grape vine similar comments.

Pat - I appreciate your experiences and would be interested in knowing if you are comparing operating costs for the 993 and 996 at the same age of cars. Did you buy your 996 in 99? Do you track it? Just wondering...

The reason I ask is that I was at the track this weekend talking with another 993 C4S owner who has really used his car. It has over 120,000 miles and he is doing DE, Club Racing, and daily driving with it and has had very few problems and none major. I have had similar experiences in my 51k mile '97. Other than oil, almost all work I have done on the car has been optional. No major issues and I look forward to many years to come of confidence that the engine will go for a very long time.

Something we 993 owners need to remember is that our cars are now 6-8 years old and with age comes some added maintenance, but every time I pull out of the garage it is all worth it.

-Skip

Rezal

Actually, coming from an ex-Lotus owner, Colin Chapman would first ask "How much does it weigh?" followed by "Will it last long enough to finish the race?"

As for the 996 vs. 993, this debate will go on for at least a few more years. The only thing I find intriguing is that Porsche used what is fundamentally a 993 block as the basis for the 996TT, GT2, and GT3 engine, and not the 996 block. Go figure.

Ruairidh

As another ex-Lotus owner, I agree that is what Colin would have asked re: race parts (as well as how much does it cost and can we make it cheaper? or get someone else to pay!).

For production cars the order of priority probably ran (a) how cheap? (b) how light? and (c) will it last for our (Lotus') warranty period?

But when all is said and done, IMHO Colin has a place as one of the greats in both Motor Racing and Fast Car Manufacturing.

billh1963

As an ex-Lotus owner myself (Turbo Esprit) I agree that Colin Chapman was a pioneer. I believe the comment related to Lotus street cars which Mr. Chapman viewed as merely a source of racing funds. His true interest was racing...everything else was merely a distraction!

That being said I would dearly love to own an early '60's Lotus Elite with the Coventry Climax engine!

laurence '97 C4S

As a current Lotus owner (1967 Elan S/E), I can say who cares how Chapman would have answered the question. I'm just glad he produced the road cars he did. Having owned four Lotuses over the years (a '67 Elan Coupe, a '70 Europa, a '72 plus 2 and the current Elan), I have only wonderful memories of the cars (despite the kitcar nature of the build). The early Lotuses were agile, quick, extremely visceral sports cars in the true sense of the word. Not a GT bone in them!

Ruairidh

The question is important in that I think the reason there are many ex -Lotus owners out there, is because Colin did answer the question as he did. The spirit of Warren Street remained in some aspects of his business thought process....

I wholeheartedly agree with all the good things you say about Lotus street cars (and a '67 Elan SE is a particularly wonderful example of Colin's design genius) but there comes a point (at least for me) when you tire of wondering whether the darn thing is going to break again.

A journalist once compared owning an Elan to dating the kind of girl his mother warned him against - and, at least to me, that captured the highs and the lows of the relationship!

Hank Cohn

I think Razel nailed the answer with his comment regarding the 993/996 debate. For most of us 993 owners, the 993 is the better car for us, however; that doesn't necessarily make it the better car.

For any of you racing on even the club level over the past five years, you know that the costs associated with racing have significantly increased. The days of driving your race car to the track, racing it, obtaining winning results and driving it home are pretty much over. Even the F1 teams are having trouble attracting and retaining sponsorship dollars. I personally, would much rather see Porsche race cars that I could actually buy and race myself, like a GT3-Cup or a GT3/RS than some one-off prototype that is made out of unobtainium.

Other than the Cayenne, Porsche appears to be doing what it has always done. It designs and evolves a model over a long period time and through multiple model years until it is no longer feasible to do so with the old platform. There are several years of 911s with very serious and very expensive engine problems. I would expect modern design and manufacturing processes to eliminate a large percentage of those problems, but building a new car looks to be a major undertaking. Additionally, Porsche is pioneering new technologies way ahead of any other manufacturer. Sometimes the cost of being on the bleeding edge is a slight sacrifice in reliability. Thanks to Porsche, these technologies will be mainstreamed much sooner. Regarding the Cayenne, if that is what it takes to keep Porsche independent, then I am all for it. Additionally, everyone I know that has driven or ridden in one has nothing but praise for what the machine does.

I don’t think there is any problem with Porsche’s long term commitment to its heritage or its products. They are making great products for the street and winning at the race track and, as such, my next sports car purchase will be another Porsche.

Hank Cohn

DoubleNutz

DoubleNutz

Well said Hank, I agree entirely and could not have said it better myself!

Anir

Hank,

Well said.

I guess I have been one of the fortunate 993 owners, because my car has been virtually trouble-free in spite of the hard track time it has seen, not to mention salty winters.

Viken

Anir,

You are one of *many* fortunate trouble-free 993 owners. I consider myself one of them. In fact, just about every 911 I've owned was trouble-free and expect my next one to be the same if not even better.

Sean993

I agree that Porsche has changed it's philosophy. When I see a 996 drive by you have to look closely to differentiate it from a Japanese car, and you never hear it first.

bet

I don't think you can dis the 996 becuase of the exhaust note. Porsche modified the exhaust in something like 2001 or 2002 and the sound is excellent. A new stock 996 has a much more traditional Porsche exhaust note than the 993. However, it does lack the mechanical noises that the 993 makes and it does not have the whirling fan sound either (not that it makes it better or worse). Just sitting at idle the 996 is pretty Japanese quiet except for the exhaust, but I would never mistake it for a Japanese car (I see the 911 lines easily). At full throttle the exhaust just sings from a 996 .

You do realize that the 993 was highly critized for being too quiet?