Greg Fishman

My experience when I went to R compounds was a little different.
I was on Pirelli P-Zero's and found them to break away much more dramatically than the Hoosiers that replaced them. Yes it was at a slower pace but I found them to be less than confidence inspiring. The Hoosier's were very predictable and as a rookie I knew that if I heard them squealing I better back off a bit as they weren't going to take much more.
I can see how someone could get into trouble with R compounds, especially in a car with as much hp as a 993TT, you have to start out slow and get your brain accustomed to the corners coming at you much quicker.

My experience may be unique and another street tire maybe have been more forgiving and other R compounds less so, but I don't think I hurt anything or slowed my learning process by changing to the R compounds. I had fewer close calls when I went to the R compounds.
Another thing to consider some of the R compounds are considerably cheaper than street tires also. It looks like Toyo is going to have some 18's in the RA-1 model, and Kumho has also recently introduced 18's, so the choice is getting better for guys that want streetable R compounds without paying through the nose.

Greg

E. J. - 993 Alumni

How the hell can you hear the tires over all that racket in your car?

I would imagine that your experience was different than most also because you knew what you wanted and (I am guessing here) probably gained a lot of track time in a short period of time. I bet you slapped on your racing tires and went to the track a lot. I think most people starting out with DEs probably do only 2 or 3 events a year and at that pace, the beginner should not be on r tires since they probably forget everything they were supposed to learn with that much time betwen events - I know I did.

Just one guy's opinion though.

E. J.

DJ

That's what makes them so much fun.

Anir

Greg,

Were you on P-Zero C's or regular P-Zeros?

DJF1

Just to add to the seeming confusion...
I was told on the track by the 911 guys that the Hoosiers are the stickiest tire around but when they break away they are goners!!!
It seems that the tire of choise for most of the instructors of the lsrpca is the Yoko A032R!!! I've been told that its the most progressive sticky tire out there.
I have also seen a 993 shod with kumho victoracers but I did not ask how they perform.
A note on the P-Zero's. I actually found them to be wonderfull tires! They were very sticky when warm (one of my instructors told me the same) and I was forgiven a lot of my overdriving during my first 2 events. On the contrary I found the S-O2's not as good as the P-Zeros. I will upgrade to the SO-3's as soon as I can figure out the tyre and rim sizes!!!
There is a lot of confusion there too!!!

Robert Henriksen

There's a pretty strong consensus that the S-03 isn't anywhere near a top performing tire in the dry. If you need good performance during Houston's monsoon downpours, then it's worth considering; but the fun factor will definitely not be as high when you get to TWS.

I have Kuhmos on my 993; they're cheap, and once you get through the greasy stage they're a good tire. It's odd, they start out strong when new, then go through a greasy stage (for a couple of run sessions when fully warmed), and then firm up again.

Todd Serota has had a chance to try the new 18" Kuhmos (Ecsta, maybe?) and really likes them. My next set of R compounds will either be Toyos or the new flavor of Kuhmos. Hoosiers are great and all, but I don't want to spend the extra $$$ for them - I'm not racing...

For the same reason, I (amazingly) managed to talk myself out of $3,000+ Fikse rims & bought used OEM wheels instead for track wheels.

In hindsight, it's still the right decision; my wife very graciously puts up with a ridiculously large 'play' budget for me & the Porsche... it was a small, small thing to spend that $3,000+ on furniture, make her happy

Greg Fishman

The Pirelli's I reffered to are the street tires. My experiences may have been due to the pressures I ran, not sure what I did run, but I bet they were close to the factory recommendations which are way high.


I have driven on the Hoosier and the kumho's and they are very similar feeling tires. The grip on the Hoosier's are a fair bit higher of course. The Kumho's had a nice progressive feel to them and these were the older models, the newer ones are supposed to be even better.

DFJ1,
If you want the stickiest street (non R compound tire) look at the BFG G-Force KD (not the KD-W's).
Greg

Jim Sullivan

DJF1,
If I could add a comment to your concerns about the 993 vs. the 968 handling.. I had a 944S2 (very similar car with 3 Ltr 4 banger). It was incredibly neutral in most respects.

When I first got my 993, I too was alarmed a bit at all that weight in the back, and my fears of swapping ends was exacerbated by the parade of magazine articles I had read over the years that recited how tail-happy the 911 auto really was. Each arrival of new and improved 911 models heralded how this trait had been greatly diminished.. the 996 supposedly cured oversteer vs. the 993 when it arrived by all accounts. You simply learn to drive these cars differently and you go faster than you ever dreamed in a 968. Ask your friends at the track.

One other item to check is alignment on your car. 993's have "kinematic" toe adjustment in the rear which is a mixed-blessing (I believe it's gone on the 996). It's supposed to help the tail thru a turn by avoiding toe out upon weighting , but if alignment is off (or if your shocks are shot), you will experience a marked bouncing around in the tail sort of as you described. Its a "hinged" or articulated feeling and very disconcerting. In my car, I would load the corner, and then if the car unloaded at all during transition, or upon exiting a corner, the tail would bounce back and forth from axle to axle for about 3 or 4 cycles before it settled down again.

I did some research on this a while ago and have more information on this phenomenon if you are so inclined. I tried to email you but was unable to do so.

DJF1

Posted By Jim: Jim you hit the matter right on the head!
That was exactly my thoughts when I was on the track! I did not describe it as elequently as you and I thank you for that.
The feeling was very discorcenting and I refused to believe that a Porsche would handle like this, so it must be my suspension...I would appreciate it if you could email me at dannyjf1@aol.com any info.
By the way what suspension do you have on you car???

Robert: which street tyre would you recommend with the TWS in mind??? would you stick on the 17"s????

There is another question on this. You mentioned about the Kumhos, but what sizes?
The jury is out as I can see on the board for the sizes and I had started a thread hoping to resolve the confusion. It seems to me that the 18" rims are not the best option amd the 17" are a better choice. So what if you go on the fronts for 225 and back at 265 on 17 inchers??? would that make more sence???

Robert Henriksen

You're kind of going in two different directions; Kuhmos (at least the flavor most people use) are R-compound tires, not suitable for street use (especially in Houston w. all the rain). I did a couple of track weekends on cheapie Bridgestone RE-71s; they're discontinued, the RE-730 takes their place.

I also used the $$$ Bridgestone S-02 Pole Position, didn't like them at all. Great rain tire, obviously, but wasn't happy on the track. Especially for the money!

I considered the 17/18" issue quite a while, and while 18" Fikses would have been fun, paying for them definitely would not have been, and paying the extra $$$ for R-compound tires in the larger size wouldn't have been, either. As people kept reminding me, I wasn't racing! I wound up with used OEM 17" wheels for the track, and use 225/45-17 & 255/40-17 rubber. On the street I still use stock 205/50 and 255/40.

I'm perfectly happy with the setup; with suspension, strut brace, and the right suspension setup the car's wonderful to drive. I outdrive a friend with a '95 993 setup with full cage, 18" Fikses, 245/275 Hoosiers, and RS chin/whale spoilers .

A wise man pointed out to me that the improvement from *any* street tire, any size, to R-compound tires was a big improvement. The improvement between R-compound tires in, say, a 255/40 to an R-compound tire in a 265 or 275 isn't nearly the same % improvement. It's that law of diminishing returns again. That's what finally convinced me to put my credit card back in my wallet

You know, as far as street tires go, I tried the $$$ route w. S-02s and was underwhelmed. Granted, KD's or Pirelli would have been the better dry choice. But cheapie street tires (RE-71, RE-730) are still a pretty darn good tire, especially when learning. And when you feel like you're outgrowing street tires on the track, you can start on R-compounds & not be spending $1k/set on street tires as well.

If you need more traction on the street than the cheapies can give you, you're driving too damn fast on the street. And since you *are* getting a chance to get your jollies on the track, there's no need to Ultimate street rubber anymore...

"Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong!"

E. J. - 993 Alumni

I completey agree with Robert. I run 17 inch hoosiers 225 and 275 that I buy used for $70 a tire. Since I am pretty smooth, I can make them last as long as most people do with new hoosiers. I just don't feel that extra expense of 18 inchers is worth it, unles of course you are racing where you need every advantage you can get.

As far as street tires, save some money and get the 730s. Put that money somewhere else in the car - more racing tires, suspension etc...

Let me know if you want the contact info for the used tires.

YMMV!

E. J.

Jerry Ljung

In re:

That would be a yes..

DJF1

Robert and EJ, Thanks for the info!
I'm going to follow your advise on this and buy myself a set of OEM's for the track. I'm not the boy racer type, I get my kicks on the track and occasionally on an off ramp
In seriousness I believe its stupid and very expensive to "race" on the streets. I enjoy my Porsche on the track and on back road twistes. I see no reason to put my self and others on harms way...
Have you guys seen the new Michellin R-compound? I saw on the Porsche 911 magazine tire rack advertizing that this tyre which comes in OEM specs in sizes will be available only to PCA members. The only draw back is the price...

EJ I would appreciate your sources for the used hoosiers.

Again Thank you guys and I wish you all a very Hapy and Prosperous New Year,

Robert Henriksen

No problem. If you want to go the OEM route, give Viking a call. He gave me the impression he somehow became a dumping ground for take-offs when people have upgraded to aftermarket wheels, and would like to get back the storage space in his shop. I got mine from him; 17" widespoke rims from a 996 Carerra 4 for $800, like new condition.

NRK

Robert:

How about posting Viking's contact info for the rest of us. I need a set of takeoffs myself... Thx