need suggestions on a good engine oil with adequate ZDDP
12-13-2014, 01:46 PM
#46
But, you can theoretically have a high pressure and zero oil flow.
IMHO, Oil flow is what it is all about.
One wants the entire flow capacity of the oil pump going through the bearings at the highest pressure possible, not out the pressure bypass circuit and back to the tank and this theoretically would be achieved by the perfect viscosity in a hot engine.
Unfortunately, the flow dimension is not measurable by the casual user.
IMHO, Oil flow is what it is all about.
One wants the entire flow capacity of the oil pump going through the bearings at the highest pressure possible, not out the pressure bypass circuit and back to the tank and this theoretically would be achieved by the perfect viscosity in a hot engine.
Unfortunately, the flow dimension is not measurable by the casual user.
re: bypass - was interesting to watch oil pressure in a 991 increase by ~15 psi in response to engine load due to the active bypass in the 9A1. Will be amusing to watch the forums react to 0w16 (& lower) GF-6 oils that are coming to market in a couple years.
12-13-2014, 01:56 PM
#47
Drifting
^ that will certainly be interesting. The current mess involves Japanese and other model ie: Chevy pickup that require 0W20 and their owners demanding do it for me shops use 5W20 because 0W20 is too thin and too expensive LOL. The OEM's will have a field day with that one.
12-13-2014, 05:50 PM
#49
Three Wheelin'
http://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-en...fe-10w-60.aspx
Not saying that's what it is, but the possibility is there.
12-13-2014, 09:07 PM
#50
Nordschleife Master
Actually the manufacturers are far more worried about the mandated emissions warranty and the life of components like the cat that are integral to that.
This was the reason for reducing the ZDDP requirement in oil starting in 1996, a secondary concern is fuel efficiency which is why the manufactures are moving to lighter weight oils.
The oils that should never ever be used in our engines are those w/ the ILSEC starburst label
The heavier weight oils are not considered to be fuel efficient and so are less restricted as to ZDDP than the lighter weight oils, these heavier oils w/ more ZDDP have the ILSEC donut label.
ZDDP content prior to '96 was in the 1600ppm range, MT 15w-50 at 1200/1300 is considered to be adequate by most oil experts
This was the reason for reducing the ZDDP requirement in oil starting in 1996, a secondary concern is fuel efficiency which is why the manufactures are moving to lighter weight oils.
The oils that should never ever be used in our engines are those w/ the ILSEC starburst label
The heavier weight oils are not considered to be fuel efficient and so are less restricted as to ZDDP than the lighter weight oils, these heavier oils w/ more ZDDP have the ILSEC donut label.
ZDDP content prior to '96 was in the 1600ppm range, MT 15w-50 at 1200/1300 is considered to be adequate by most oil experts
This chart shows that the ZDDP content prior to 1996 was in the 1200/1300 range with the exception of racing oils used with cars with no catalyst.
I would recommend Mobil-1 15w-50 for our 993s and avoid the racing oils to preserve the life of the cats. Go for the Mobil-1 V-twin on the track cars.
12-13-2014, 09:07 PM
#51
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Reasonable probability Porsche 10w60 is M1 10w60. Unlikely Porsche ventured into oil refinery business. Have seen Liqui Moly and Castrol in my neck of the woods, would like to see M1.
12-14-2014, 09:19 AM
#52
If you think we get into it, here is an oil post on Ferrarichat:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php...rticles#faq_mo
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php...rticles#faq_mo
This chart shows that the ZDDP content prior to 1996 was in the 1200/1300 range with the exception of racing oils used with cars with no catalyst.
I would recommend Mobil-1 15w-50 for our 993s and avoid the racing oils to preserve the life of the cats. Go for the Mobil-1 V-twin on the track cars.
I would recommend Mobil-1 15w-50 for our 993s and avoid the racing oils to preserve the life of the cats. Go for the Mobil-1 V-twin on the track cars.
BTW, I agree w/ your conclusion about 15w50 (but also suggest 0w40 & 5W50 are fine for street cars). There's some older research that says >1400ppm Ph actually *increases* long term wear, giving users of V-twin something to consider.
12-14-2014, 01:13 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
^^^
Has there ever been a post as long on this forum as that one on Ferrarichat?
I don't know about the conclusions either, but definite food for thought.
The writer has a fleet of cars anyway Enzo, Maranello, Lamborghini and more
Has there ever been a post as long on this forum as that one on Ferrarichat?
I don't know about the conclusions either, but definite food for thought.
The writer has a fleet of cars anyway Enzo, Maranello, Lamborghini and more
12-15-2014, 01:19 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Joe Gibbs Racing "Driven" oils have been mentioned here, so I did some research on them.
My bet is they are made by Lubrizol Corp, but don't know for sure.
Anyway, Gibbs seem to take oils pretty seriously making no less than 6 different types of 15-50 motor oil with one made with a mPAO (metallocene polyalphaolefin) high viscosity index base stock that is specifically recommended for air cooled Porsche engines. This is their DT50 oil.
I have decided to use DT50 15-50 for the engine I am building here now.
The Gibbs website has some interesting reading in the "Training Center" here about ZDDP solubility, variable cam timing oil requirements, viscosity index, etc. http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...aining-center/
Download the Gibbs catalog here and look on page 13 for Porsche 15-50 http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro/catalog/
My bet is they are made by Lubrizol Corp, but don't know for sure.
Anyway, Gibbs seem to take oils pretty seriously making no less than 6 different types of 15-50 motor oil with one made with a mPAO (metallocene polyalphaolefin) high viscosity index base stock that is specifically recommended for air cooled Porsche engines. This is their DT50 oil.
I have decided to use DT50 15-50 for the engine I am building here now.
The Gibbs website has some interesting reading in the "Training Center" here about ZDDP solubility, variable cam timing oil requirements, viscosity index, etc. http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/...aining-center/
Download the Gibbs catalog here and look on page 13 for Porsche 15-50 http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro/catalog/
12-26-2014, 12:32 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
FWIW cats are pretty cheap to replace. I cringe when I hear that being a deciding factor in oil choices.
I run Redline blue bottle but would not hesitate to use Mobile 1 15-50. In both cases they could use an extra splash of zinc additive. Mobil 1 V twin seems like the best choice.
Without getting to far off topic replacing stock cats is done by cutting out the old ones and welding in new ones. A good fabricator can do this quite easily. They first make a jig then band saw out the old one and then weld in new ones. All in all it's pretty cheap when compared to motor work.
The consequences of choosing the wrong oil don't appear till many mile down the road. Steve W has nothing to gain or loose by sharing his observations. It would be wise to listen to his advise.
I run Redline blue bottle but would not hesitate to use Mobile 1 15-50. In both cases they could use an extra splash of zinc additive. Mobil 1 V twin seems like the best choice.
Without getting to far off topic replacing stock cats is done by cutting out the old ones and welding in new ones. A good fabricator can do this quite easily. They first make a jig then band saw out the old one and then weld in new ones. All in all it's pretty cheap when compared to motor work.
The consequences of choosing the wrong oil don't appear till many mile down the road. Steve W has nothing to gain or loose by sharing his observations. It would be wise to listen to his advise.
12-26-2014, 01:05 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
When did cats get cheap?
FWIW cats are pretty cheap to replace. I cringe when I hear that being a deciding factor in oil choices.
I run Redline blue bottle but would not hesitate to use Mobile 1 15-50. In both cases they could use an extra splash of zinc additive. Mobil 1 V twin seems like the best choice.
Without getting to far off topic replacing stock cats is done by cutting out the old ones and welding in new ones. A good fabricator can do this quite easily. They first make a jig then band saw out the old one and then weld in new ones. All in all it's pretty cheap when compared to motor work.
The consequences of choosing the wrong oil don't appear till many mile down the road. Steve W has nothing to gain or loose by sharing his observations. It would be wise to listen to his advise.
I run Redline blue bottle but would not hesitate to use Mobile 1 15-50. In both cases they could use an extra splash of zinc additive. Mobil 1 V twin seems like the best choice.
Without getting to far off topic replacing stock cats is done by cutting out the old ones and welding in new ones. A good fabricator can do this quite easily. They first make a jig then band saw out the old one and then weld in new ones. All in all it's pretty cheap when compared to motor work.
The consequences of choosing the wrong oil don't appear till many mile down the road. Steve W has nothing to gain or loose by sharing his observations. It would be wise to listen to his advise.
12-26-2014, 02:08 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
FWIW cats are pretty cheap to replace. I cringe when I hear that being a deciding factor in oil choices.
I run Redline blue bottle but would not hesitate to use Mobile 1 15-50. In both cases they could use an extra splash of zinc additive. Mobil 1 V twin seems like the best choice.
Without getting to far off topic replacing stock cats is done by cutting out the old ones and welding in new ones. A good fabricator can do this quite easily. They first make a jig then band saw out the old one and then weld in new ones. All in all it's pretty cheap when compared to motor work.
The consequences of choosing the wrong oil don't appear till many mile down the road. Steve W has nothing to gain or loose by sharing his observations. It would be wise to listen to his advise.
I run Redline blue bottle but would not hesitate to use Mobile 1 15-50. In both cases they could use an extra splash of zinc additive. Mobil 1 V twin seems like the best choice.
Without getting to far off topic replacing stock cats is done by cutting out the old ones and welding in new ones. A good fabricator can do this quite easily. They first make a jig then band saw out the old one and then weld in new ones. All in all it's pretty cheap when compared to motor work.
The consequences of choosing the wrong oil don't appear till many mile down the road. Steve W has nothing to gain or loose by sharing his observations. It would be wise to listen to his advise.
12-26-2014, 02:39 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Not doable in California unless the new Cat is CARB certified at smog test time. Certified replacement Cats are out there http://www.magnaflow.com/02catalytic...iversal=332006 , but installation is not trivial. One has to build a system that has the same number of Cats and the O2 sensor has to be in exact location as original.
Look closely at the cat pipes and you will see the Cats are about 6" long. That is what gets cut out and replaced.
We never had issues with SMOG. Sure the cans are not marked with a CARB numbers but neiter are the stock ones. Since they are welded back into the factory pipe it all appears as stock.
12-26-2014, 03:19 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Last time I checked the cats were $600-$800 for 2. The labor for install doubles that. The O2 location does not change because you are only changing the cats. At even double that cost it's still about 10% of what a motor overhaul costs. Which is the higher priority?
Look closely at the cat pipes and you will see the Cats are about 6" long. That is what gets cut out and replaced.
We never had issues with SMOG. Sure the cans are not marked with a CARB numbers but neiter are the stock ones. Since they are welded back into the factory pipe it all appears as stock.
Look closely at the cat pipes and you will see the Cats are about 6" long. That is what gets cut out and replaced.
We never had issues with SMOG. Sure the cans are not marked with a CARB numbers but neiter are the stock ones. Since they are welded back into the factory pipe it all appears as stock.
http://www.fvd.de/us/en/Porsche-0/99...00mm_long.html