pp000830

Here is the original document in PDF all pages:
http://jameshalderman.com/powerpoint...duct_Guide.pdf

Ed Hughes

I guess we need a sticky: The search function must be down.

mikey_audiogeek

Yep search must be down.
The design intent of the oil is more important than any single parameter.
Any oil designed for flat tappet, HT/HS, and racing seems appropriate.
Can't get Mobil 1 15W50 where I am so I use Mobil 1 10W60 instead.

Mark in Baltimore

Gosh, I'm guessing it's because he can read. Try setting your brain to "on" instead of "snark" or "linen herringbone cummerbunds".

You've been here long enough to know that the ZDDP content of many oils has been discussed at length by numerous members such as Charles Navarro, Doug Hillary, Steve Weiner, et al. The ZDDP data content of various oils has been compared to the Mobil 1 products; it's part of the reason why many people have chosen Redline, Brad Penn, etc. over M1.

(The search function is just fine. I used it several times in the past week.)

Ed Hughes

That there is pretty funny. It reminded me of the thread on his fashion hobby.

Quadcammer

that was my point. M1 is not highly regarded in this forum. The zddp levels shown for 15w-50 is not bad, but its not great either. Hence why people choose other oils.

Btw, Charles Navarro plainly states:

"I do not recommend the use of any SM or CJ-4 (or later specification) motor oils in any aircooled Porsche, "

http://lnengineering.com/index.php/r...ut-motor-oils/

from the mobil website

Mobil 1 15W-50 meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SN, SM, SL, SJ

so whats your problem?

Quadcammer

also

ToSi

Note zinc / phosphorus levels prescribed with 1996's SH oil spec (image from hotrod magazine article about cam wear):


Now compare vs. M1 15w50 specs (partial list, see link elsewhere in thread for the whole thing):


Now, notice which oils on the M1 list carry the Porsche A40 approval & consider their Z/P levels vs. the levels shown for the SJ/SL rating.. Next, compare against the SM rating, which anecdotally, was the source of many issues ~10yrs ago when released.

Still looking for a picture of a stock 964/993 engine ruined by M1 0w40..

x50type

Oil threads are endless, produce no agreement and produce serious animosity.

They bring out the worst in people.

I say time to ban them.

Pags993

Agreed! I hear enough about this stuff at work, don't need to read it here as well where I come to "escape" lol

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

I don't think I'd ban them; I would simply ask for maintaining civility & courtesy (rapidly decreasing qualities) when discussing or debating such a divisive and contentious topic.

Based on my phone traffic & e-mails about this subject, there seems to still be a lot of people who are confused and/or overwhelmed by the sheer amount of posts which have left folks wondering what to, and what not to use in their air-cooled engine.

While I've written ad nauseum about oils for 17+ years, both here and on Pelican, I still don't mind answering questions when people need a bottom-line solution.

Its a complex subject with variables well beyond the spec sheets/VOA's and there is no substitute for the practical field experience gleaned from rebuilding a LOT of these engines for 35+ years and I'm happy to share that.

x50type

Dear Steve,

After 17 or more years you know there will alway be a lot of people who are confused and/or overwhelmed by the sheer amount of posts which leave folks wondering what to, and what not to use in their air-cooled engine.

So as there is no consensus and as it is unlikely there will ever be oils every one agrees are the ones and only ones to use, is it not time to call it a day and simply agree to disagree and leave the subject alone?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Speaking only for myself, I've certainly reached a consensus on this subject and I have no reservations about sharing my experiences with those who ask.

Given the financial consequences of a wrong choice, I feel an obligation to continue a dialog when the need arises. Many of my peers have simply given up and now simply enjoy the harvest that fattens the bottom line each month. For me, I'm willing to offer some constructive input on this (critical) subject as long as there are open minds who are willing to listen.

Remember, this is all about facts and data, not creative marketing, opinions, hearsay, and conjecture.

x50type

Points well taken, Steve and I certainly value highly your experience, knowledge and opinions.
Hell, I even have one of your excellent ECU chips that you designed/made for me in my 993.

Folks have opinions and conclusions but there is no unanimity and no consensus, as far as I can see.

So as there is no consensus and as it is unlikely there will ever be oils every one agrees are the ones and only ones to use, is it not time to call it a day and simply agree to disagree and leave the subject alone?

Cupcar

One thing to to consider in states that require require regular emission testing:

ZDDP shortens Catalytic Converter life and using higher ZDDP oils like V-Twin may lead you down an expensive path as well.

BTW- If'n you use the Mobil product selector on their website you will find that for Porsche 911 from 1980 - '84 Mobil recommend M1 15-50 if over 32 degrees F and 0 - 40 if less than 32 degrees F.

1995 to '98 911 recommended is M1 0 - 40 all the time, no temperature guideline.

Why the break in '85 doesn't make much sense to me, if it were in '90 when all cars had a high flow oil pump, I could see 0 - 40 then, but there is not much difference in the engine until then, except Turbos which have a big oil pump.